Welcome to Coffee Talk! Let’s start off the day by discussing whatever is on your (nerd chic) mind. Every morning I’ll kick off a discussion and I’m counting on you to participate in it. If you’re not feelin’ my topic, feel free to start a chat with your fellow readers and see where it takes you. Whether you’re talking about videogames, if the NY Knicks have finally gotten past years or mediocrity, Verve Roasters’ Ethiopia Nigusie Lemma, or your holiday shopping, Coffee Talk is the place to do it.
In a recent episode of Pach Atttack starring Wedbush Morgan analyst Michael Pachter (I’ll give you a few moments to soak that all in), your favorite videogame analyst and mine (not really) said that Apple’s iOS is the future of mobile gaming. In fact, he felt so strongly about the iPod Touch that he doesn’t see a bright future for Nintendo’s and Sony’s next portable systems. Check it out:
I think the ubiquity of the iPod Touch is cutting into the handheld market, I think the PSP was dead on arrival and I think the PSP2 is going to be dead on arrival. It looks to me like young kids are just as happy playing with an iPod Touch or a Nano. The Touch is cool, it plays games, plays music, they’re going to put a camera in it and you’re going to get all kinds of cool stuff.
The 3DS will prolong the handheld market for the game manufacturers, but ultimately, I think handhelds are in trouble. After the 3DS has had its little rush I think the handhelds will continue to decline.
What do you think of Pachter’s stance? Is he on the money? Or is he just talking out of his ass to get more attention? Will the multifunction wizardry of the iPod Touch beat out the sheer power of the PSP2 and the 3D wonder of the 3DS? Can’t we live in a world where all of them do reasonably well? Share your feelings like a Care Bear (please)!
61 thoughts on “Coffee Talk #261: Has Apple Doomed the 3DS and PSP2?”
the psp was dead on arrival…to the tune of 60 million units sold…..does this guy even fact check??
Yeah, I don’t understand why people think the PSP was a complete flop. The numbers are impressive for a first effort.
Probably because the US sales numbers aren’t that great. People believe what they see and sometimes they ignore the rest of the world.
Even then, 17-million+ is nothing to sneeze at. *shrug*
He sounds like he doesn't know anything about the handheld market or the companies involved to me. Lets be honest, iGames (I need to trademark that) and handheld games are apples and oranges. They are games, but of different types and quality. Also, Apple doesn't not have the developer or publisher support to pull that of in the near future (5 years). Sony on the other hand is rumored to be going mobile with their handheld system, which is far more dangerous than Apple because of the strong publisher support they already have. Last but not least, Nintendo hasn't been dominating the handheld market since they debuted in it for no reason. The 3DS will have a very long life span and when it is finally over, Nintendo will invent something else no one has done before and keep their handhelds on the market.
Well, iOS games are evolving. There will always be more casual games on iOS, but developers like id and Epic are raising the bar.
True, but they are only increasing what the current developer can do on that platform. Apple need to draw in big developers and show that they are more than just casual if they really want to overtake Nintendo. Remove the apples and oranges barrier.
What… like EA, Activision, and Ubisoft?
Because I can play iOS versions of Madden, Guitar Hero, and Assassin's Creed on my iPhone right now.
They do have the publisher support, it just doesn't have the power that the PSP has… yet. And even then, certain publishers (like Ray said) are finding ways around that to step it up.
The real game changer is the other features the iPhone has that can allow you to start gaming with your life. A game like Ghosts Attack makes maps from the map app of the phone so you can shoot ghosts on the street you live on. A game like My Town allows you to virtually buy real buildings in your area and gives you bonuses for checking in on them when you are within a km of them. An app like Fits allows you to take a picture of some chick and calculate her bra size.
This is what the iPhone has really brought to handheld gaming.
According to John Carmack iOS surpasses the current handhelds in power.
Oh… well damn.
It's just hard for me to believe that an iPhone can out perform the PSP.
The current handhelds won't be current soon, so that comment holds little water.
Some of those games don't have the staying power that the games Nintendo can bring to the table always have. My Town being one of the games you mentioned that I used to play. It was so boring and really only takes a few minutes to play a lot of the stuff. I can play Zelda or Mario for hours. Sure you can play Zelda or Mario all over the place, but I still have fun every time I do play. I got rid of My Town within a week, and I only used it for the first couple days.
It doesn't matter if devs flock to other platforms. Read that link.
Like I said a little farther down, I wouldn't bet against Nintendo. If devs go to the iOS platform that is fine, but I think the Nintendo handhelds will continue to do well and a game on my phone will never, for me at least, beat something that is on a DS or PSP (or future iteration of a handheld).
What Pachter is saying is that you won't have the choice. Devs like to make money and iOS is less risky because of the low costs and huge install base.
I prefer gaming on my iMac but it isn't feasible beyond Blizzard games. The choice isn't mine.
I don't think that's what Pachter was saying. That was too insightful and concise for something Pachter would say. *snicker*
Like I said, I wouldn't bet against Nintendo. I cannot believe that every single developer would move away from something that Nintendo is involved with. Devs will stay with Nintendo and continue to make great games for Nintendo handhelds despite what is going on with other platforms.
Well, third-party developers haven't had the easiest time working on any Nintendo system. There's certainly an opportunity on iOS. It's not like Apple is dominating the market with first-party software the way Nintendo does with its consoles.
You missed the boat or side tracked my point.
I've been playing The Cartel every day for months and it's still not boring to acknowledge your point. CasteCraft is another one.
Lately I've been playing Angry Birds and Cut The Rope when I'm not playing Cartel.
I agree that My Town sucks, it was just an example of of bringing your real life into your virtual life. That is all.
That's fine, but even past a game that we can both agree sucked like My Town- I played the Assasin's Creed game for about 10 minutes before deleting it. So even big publishers haven't put out great games. Likewise, I won't even purchase the the football or basketball games on iOS because that is way too small of a screen (also considering that the buttons are on the screen as well). Mirror's Edge was another big titled game that's on iOS, and I absolutely love the game on my xbox and would like to support that game specifically, but that game looks terrible on iOS. Even good games that I wouldn't mid supporting look bad to me on iOS, and they are the ones from the big name publishers that you mentioned earlier.
The only big title game that I have been mildly interested in is GTA: Chinatown wars…but I am not the biggest fan of the series anyways, and if I got it I would rather get it for DS because it would be more comfortable there. Other games you mentioned, the cartel- I've played similar games on facebook before (from what I know of the cartel) and didn't enjoy them, and Angry Birds was a decent game, but it's just a series of levels that's good for short term play only. I'm not familiar with CasteCraft.
You have to keep in mind how rapidly the space is progressing. Mobile games and social games are ramping up. Examples from six months ago will be irrelevant six months from now.
That is very true, it is very fast paced. But in another 6 months I don't see games on iOS beating out Nintendo games. Even in the near future (5 years I believe is what Sandrock used for his example so I will steal his number) I don't see Nintendo handhelds being on the verge of being shut down due to devs and publishers moving to iOS only.
Beating out in what sense? Visually, what Epic and id are doing on iOS is more impressive than what's on PSP and DS.
I was speaking more towards sales and number of games sold when I mention iOS "beating out" Nintendo handhelds.
I can see sales being higher (in terms of individual numbers, not revenue) simply because the games are cheaper and impulse purchases are easier.
Good point, certainly a possibility. But I still do not think it will ever be enough to shut down Nintendo handhelds.
I think what you are referencing is something that was noted in the link SG posted. That comes down to file size.
Apple theorizes that nobody wants to download a 10 GB file so they cap it at 2 GB… this may change in the future. The next version may have more of an expanded memory capability.
And Frankly, DS games don't look all that great to me. I'd say it's comparable to the iPhone. PSP games look good though… but file size is why.
I think the handheld market will be ok for at least 5-7 more years. The 3DS novelty will wear off after awhile and the PsP2 will be taken over by the Psphone model if the Ericsson model has success. I'm interested to see what Apple does with that 3D patent they submitted a couple of weeks ago. Will this be for all of their products or just the iphone and iPads?
yeah it looks like they're turning it around. I'm still thinking that LeBron would've been a perfect fit for the NYK.
about halfway done, i hope to get it done next weekend once i get paid and my xmas bonus in.
I will agree with him this time. The costs for developers is substantially lower on iOS or even Android.
Did you go to work or are you playing Cataclysm all day?
taking advanced account 3 final today then playing Cata. So I’ve been doing spreadsheets this morning getting ready whilst taking many breaks.
Is this guy ever write?
He would have an outstanding batting average by baseball standards.
I just woke up
I don't know what Pachter is saying. I'm not saying Apple isn't going to continue to do well with its iOS, but don't bet against Nintendo. They have proven themselves time and time again, and have led the handheld market ever since they created it.
People love consolidation. For instance, if you carry an iPhone there is no need to carry an mp3 player. The same applies for handheld gaming. Consolidation on top of hardware advances will be the new paradigm. I buy a lot of gadgets but I won't carry around 2 that do what 1 can.
I would agree, consolidation and integration are two key things that help products sell. However, to me a Nintendo handheld is worth the extra room taken up in my coat pocket or backpack.
Consolidation is nice, but if that was the defining factor then we would all be PC gamers. Almost everyone has a camera on their phone, but that doesn't stop them from buying a stand alone camera. Nor has it driven companies out of the camera market. Games are the same in that sense. Even though we can buy one product that can play games and do a lot of other things, we still buy stand alone game machines because they offer better experiences.
This reminds me of when Pachter said that the Kinect and Move shortages were artificial. My friend James from Q Entertainment tweeted that he wished there was a shortage of Pachter. *snicker*
The Google Chrome presser is pretty interesting. It would of all been more powerful if the netbook market didn't burn itself out and tablets weren't so hot (like Hansel, so hot right now).
100MB of free data every month for two years with Google Chrome OS netbooks. Interesting.
Yeah I found it odd that they went ahead with the netbook thing. I thought they would at least dump the name Chrome in favor of Android.
I think there is room for both.
Could create confusion having a google account for 2 platforms. Could cause fragmentation :)
Two platforms? You have the same login for a number of Google products. That would only confuse idiots.
The world is full of them.
Your dedication to Nintendo is admirable but I'm willing to bet you purchase more games for your xbox than the Wii. If you own a Wii. Nintendo had a chokehold on the home market for quite some time. Things change.
Ask these companies:
Yes, but none of those companies you mentioned owns the rights to Pokemon, Mario, Zelda and Metroid.
Pokemon, Mario, Zelda, and Metroid become less viable if the machine they run on isn't selling by the boatload.
In fact eventhough I'm agreeing with Pachter, I will still buy the 3DS. i'm interested. I know for a fact I won't buy the PSP2 or PSPhone. If the 3DS wasn't 3D, I wouldn't buy it. I'm also fairly sure that I won't buy any games past the launch titles or the 2 to 3 I have in mind anyway.
I bought a DS on launch day…I have bought considerably more iOS games and apps than I have DS games. DS games are better, hands down. The input is superior, no questions there. Price and convenience trump superior input and title quality though.
I have spent more money on my xbox than a Wii or DS(i, lite). I do not own a Wii, but my fiance and I are talking about getting one and there are far more games on the Wii and DS that I would rather be playing right now. Xbox games are at an all time low for me, the only other games I really want right now are Portal 2, Gears 3, and Bulletstorm. Halo Reach and Plants vs. Zombies are the only other games I have wanted in the past several months for xbox. Overall though I have spent a lot more money with Nintendo over the years in comparison to xbox, and I know I will continue to support Nintendo in the future as well.
Also, with the companies that you mentioned they all have something huge in common- they did not change or adapt to the future in time. Nintendo has shown that they can change with the future, and that is a key difference.
Selling cartridge based games for 25-40 dollars isn't a good way to go.
Like disc based media is better? Cartridges offer more memory and are more reliable than discs. Granted, digital downloads are becoming much better, but Nintendo is and has already started to move in that direction on all of their current hardware.
Where did i say disc based was the way to go? In fact I am saying that disc/cartridge is too antiquated for a portable system.
Random rant for no reason actually. Always bugged me that everyone had to switch to that medium even though the tech was far more limited and inferior to what what was already on the market. The last half is what actually relates to the conversation. Does an SD card count as the new cartridge?
The Chrome notebook CR-48 is really ugly, but it's potentially very interesting. Hacking it is encouraged. I'm off to a lunch meeting shortly, but will think about it more and post a story after lunch.
did you see who made the boxing HOF class of 2011?
I did. Solid class.
i'm kinda meh on Stallone making it. I know he did a lot with Rocky but idk if he deserves an HOF slot.
I've requested to join the beta for AOL's new email service, Project Phoenix. Anyone have any questions about it they would like answered when I start testing it?
Comments are closed.