Welcome to Coffee Talk! Let’s start off the day by discussing whatever is on your (nerd chic) mind. Every morning I’ll kick off a discussion and I’m counting on you to participate in it. If you’re not feelin’ my topic, feel free to start a chat with your fellow readers and see where it takes you. Whether you’re talking about videogames, Intelligentsia’s Organic Ethiopia Yirgacheffe Adado, remembering to vote for WWE AJ Lee in the NXT poll, or if you’re going to see Wall Street 2, Coffee Talk is the place to do it.
I’m so excited for portable gaming in 2011. The Nintendo 3DS is coming in March. Several developers are working on games for the PSP2. Apple iOS, Google Android, and Microsoft Windows Phone 7 games are going to be better than ever. At the very least, it’s going to be chaotic trying to cover and understand everything. At best, we will be overwhelmed by the flood of excellent portable games.
I realize that most of you RPadholics are home console guys, but I’d bet that most of you will do more portable gaming in 2011 than you did in 2010. There are too many capable platforms and too many potentially cool games. It’s going to be tough to ignore!
Are any of you guys and dolls as excited about the prospects of portable gaming in 2011 as I am? What platforms are you looking forward to? If you’re still not convinced handheld gaming is worth your time then I must ask you…why the hell not?!?
I'm looking forward to more robust iPad games. I think it is an amazing platform for games. The large hi res screen just begs for something tailor made.
I'm really excited by this wave of portables coming out and everyday the Android games are getting better. My next phone will be an Android with a large ass screen and since so many new handhelds are coming out that means price drops for existing models so my choices will be plentiful. I really am considering getting the 3DS and possibly a cheap PSP to play some Final Fantasy games old and new.
where the hell is this purported sony ericson psp phone? Thats what i want…or a phone with ps3 remote play support
Handhelds aren't for me, but I kinda want a psp. Someone convince me please.
I also kind of want a psp, but I still want another nintendo handheld first. Mobile gaming on phones is also a great option that I wouldn't mind looking in to, but they would have to be android or windows games because my ipod touch just isn't really cutting it with the games I find.
Looking forward to some good mobile gaming again.
I think you had best get used to touchscreen only games since that segment is huge. I don't see devs making games that only work for the Droid 2 or Epic.
Wallstreet was a horrible movie so im not watching the sequel.
@Ray: Bioware announced the Dragon Age: Origins Ultimate Edition today.
http://www.gameseyeview.com/2010/09/30/bioware-an…
@nightshade
thanks for the heads up. I was going to pick this up eventually and buy all that DLC. i guess i just saved myself $55.
@Smartguy
It's not that I don't like touchscreen only games, I'm fine with that and that's also what I've been expecting would be the case with a windows mobile 7 phone since I heard about the types of games it would have a long time ago. What I don't like is all of the crap games you have to wade through for my ipod touch. There are some really good games on there, and then plenty that I just got bored with so quickly because they simply aren't good games.
That is just another reason that I will probably always like portable gaming on a handheld system like a psp or a ds better than a mobile phone.
@bsu
Conversely there is no shortage of crap games for PC, console and handheld alike. At least they are cheap on the app store and Google market.
I honestly have not touched my DS in a long time. My iPhone 3G took its place a while back and now my iPhone4 and iPad have officially retired it.
If the 3DS wasn't 3D I'd skip it.
Very surprised by the arrival of a T-Mobile G2. I'll snap some pics and post them shortly.
@Ray
Give us details asap please. I'm interested in that. Might not rush out but I'd like some info. Maybe a video of it booting or the keyboard sliding?
@Smartguy
I would agree there are a lot of bad games on all systems, the difference is it is much easier to sort through the good and bad games for other systems. The app store doesn't allow me to refine my searches in a decent manner or to give me good options for finding great games. Even the games that apple tries to promote are not good games. Even when I play a mobile game I still want it to be good, and I think it is easier to find that on a ds or psp.
The longer I have my ipod touch the more I end up using it for email, movies, tv shows, and music only. I can hardly remember the last time I really used it for a great new app or game. PopCap games are the only ones that I can keep playing consistently.
I would rather pay more for a game elsewhere and know that I will actually enjoy it and it will be a good solid game. I have never really found that on the app store. Also, and this is a cheaper shot and more of a personal issue, I want everything to work well for a decent period of time. This weekend I am gonna have to go to the apple store and get my third new ipod touch because they keep messing up. I can no longer download or update any app and I have had a lot of issues with apps not working properly. Out of all the ds's or psp's that I have seen or owned I have never had any problem with anything. They have all been great systems.
@ Big Blak
New Borderlands DLC!!!!
@tokz: no prob. It's a great game.
@BSU
Grab FF1 from the App store. Great game. Honestly.
Why can't you update? I had that problem because my bank changed the terms of my card and it would no longer authorize itself as a credit card. Long story short Apple couldn't fix it so I had to either go to my payment options in iTunes and select none or enter a giftcard option. I wound up buying a $50 card and will just keep it on my account and add to it as needed. For the time being, set your payment options to none and see if that works. Plus still go to the Apple store because it is cool…you might as well get the new retina display model anyway :)
@smartguy That game could be more interesting in 3D…on a 3DS…perhaps. Oh, let's just count I, II, III, IV, V.
@Smartguy
That has been one series I had thought about picking up from the app store someday, but mostly because I have never been a FF fan.
I am unable to download anything because of what I am assuming is a software malfunction. If I try to update or install an app it makes space for the new app and the space where the app should be is just a grey app that says waiting and has a status bar like it hasn't started downloading yet…but it never does. So I have a few apps that are just sitting there. I can't delete them and they won't download, but the app store tells me the app has been downloaded or updated.
I would actually prefer they just give me one of the new retina display models when I go there this weekend, but I doubt they will do that. I think it is the least they could do for me since I have had several problems with the product. lol. And I can't afford to pay to upgrade or anything, if I could, I would probably still go get a ds or psp.
haha for the briefest instant I thought Kain from LoK lol.
I forgot about racing. I'm sure it will be neat but I'm gonna plop the money down for GT5 and play the hell out of that with surround sound. It's gonna be great. I plan on it being obnoxiously loud.
I bet a boomblox type of game is awesome in 3D.
@bsukenyan Do you consider drivers to be athletes?
i don't. neither are cheerleaders. or golfers. or bowlers.
@Ray
definitely. it is just as strenuous as many other activities in the conditions that they have to face and the skill and ability that they have to have. most people don't realize that there is a natural skill that some people have to drive and race better, just like people have similar natural skills for throwing or catching a ball (or kicking a ball, running, etc).
@smartguy I'm with you on golfers and bowlers. Cheerleaders — competitive ones, that is — do some pretty strenuous physical activity.
@Smartguy: Actually, competitive cheerleaders (like Ray was talking about) are very much athletes and work as a team to win competitions. It's a completely different world than the "6 prettiest girls in the senior class standing on the sidelines" type of cheerleaders.
@ Big Blak
My check won't clear until Monday… but I might be able to transfer monies from my savings account just to hit up Amazon and get a points card.
@ Smartguy
You know, I would of said the same thing about cheerleaders until I saw an episode of Penn & Teller: Bullshit (GREAT show) that covered cheerleaders. They take considerable injuries, some even paralyzing. They have to be in shape (no fat chicks) and they do a ton of things I can't do. I say their athletes.
Golfers and bowlers… I don't know. They are both skillful, physical games.
@smartguy You clearly need to watch Bring it On again.
@ N8R
I know man!!! Mr. Frank the OG from Holland is getting it on Friday (well tomorrow) and so am I. Do I smell some treasure hunting this weekend?
@Ray
You think so? I’ve honestly thought about it and I can’t decide on which types/genres of games that I will like most in 3D. I could see an RPG being a good fit as well as an FPS of course. Not sure how I’d like a brawler in 3D though. Thoughts?
@smartguy Hmmm. Perhaps I’ve said too much already.
On a broader note, it’s tough to envision what would work and what wouldn’t until you try the system. I know that my thoughts going into it were much different than the ones I had after I played. What I thought would work gameplay wise changed.
@Ray
hehe, maybe just a bit too much. Besides…I could use a good excuse to use Cecil again. :)
I’m definitely keeping an open mind with 3D gaming. I’m just trying to think of the genres that will really stick out to me (haha). I don’t know if a sports title in 3D will change it up too much. Just my opinion.
@smartguy Did you see that Kain is in the next Dissidia? I’m pretty psyched about that.
Racing — if you count that as a sport — is pretty awesome in 3D. I don’t know if it would work on a handheld, but my favorite console 3D game so far is MLB: The Show.
@Ray
racing is definitely a sport.
So does a race car driver by virtue of risk and heat but I still don’t consider them athletes. Cheerleaders don’t help their team win. In fact I wouldn’t notice they were there or not there unless it was pointed out.
I’m pretty sure cheerleaders in my state are not afforded the same rights and protections that other athletes are afforded. Then again, who gets a cheerleading scholarship huh?
@ Smartguy and Nightshade
The thing is… there’s a corporation called Varsity that has a stranglehold on cheerleading in general. They put on all the competitions and supply just about EVERY (and I mean every) school with their cheerleading equipment.
Varsity makes more money and has less liability if cheerleading is not considered a sport by any governing body (like the NCAA). If cheerleaders had the same athletic rights, they could lose millions. SO…. Varsity has put their people in place to make sure cheerleading does not officially become a sport, but it should be an official sport.
@Nightshade
Yeah I was fixated on High School.
@ N8R
Thats cool man if you want me to wait I will.
I really enjoy that movie.
again huh? haha.
@ All
Whats the difference between a 1GB NVIDIA GeForce and a 1GB ATI Radeon HD and their matching 2GB counterparts? I know nothing about graphics cards and I’m going to build a machine to produce music and videos on.
@ Big Blak
What you want to be looking for is software requirements for ProTools.
Go to the store or website, look at the requirements for ProTools, Put the box back down or close the webpage, Build your machine about 4x ro 8x stronger than what it requires (RAM mainly), then get in touch with me and I’ll get you ProTools. Then start looking at MIDI’s.
Or buy it off of Amazon using the convenient links provided on this very webpage.
P.S. I got the new Borderlands DLC.
P.S
@N8R
Sweet bro that would be awesome! I know the computer will have at least 6GB of ram and ill look into the requirements for protools.
@big blak
if you would like i can get you adobe premiere pro cs4 if you dont mind being immoral and not paying 1300 bones for it
seriously, the god damn program is 1300 bucks, and thats the old version
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B001EUIXL8…
im not terribly conversant with final cut, but premiere pro kicks ass..is final cut really that much better?
@N8R
protools requires a mbox right? Is been a while and I dont remember.
@Thunder
I dont think saving money is immoral.
@Big Blak What video editing software are you looking at? Everything I’ve tried for PC blows compared to Final Cut and Final Cut Express.
@ Rpad or N E 1
My girl going to buy some stuff off amazon today and I have some questions. Firstly if we go through your Amazon search box (which would bring us to amazon) and we add more through that page do you still get the points/rewards or what ever it is you get, or would we have to add each item through the search box provided here?
bunches of 6**
@Big Blak
You should just have to go through the amazon link once. Then when you are on amazon's site you are in. That is the way I have always used it and Ray has told me before my purchases have showed up for him.
@Big Blak
No problem. Man that sounds like a great hookup there! That's a lot of ram. wow.
@BB
Choose a mobo that supports DDR3. Just sayin.
Or you could just get an iMac. It's badass.
@ Thundercracker
Yes.
@ Big Blak and Ray
Adobe Premiere is probably the best video editing software you are gonna get for PC. However, it's glitchy and crashes.
@ Big Blak and Mbox
I don't really know. I have a good friend here who has setup studios for people I'm sure you've heard of (Snoop, Kottonmouth Kings, Capitol Records, etc.). Whenever I need it put together, I just call him. He asks me for software.
I'm a software guy and learning hardware in the form of local networks. But generally, I'm not a hardware guy.
@ BB
Smartguy is right. Getting an iMac is the easiest solution.
They really are the industry standard in recording music and doing video.
Indeed. Garageband is pretty damn cool. I'm not very deep into that, but from my perspective it seems rather robust.
iMovie is neat. I have done a few movies with it and like it. I just don't have the ability to purchase one of the expensive softwares though. If one were to fall off a truck though…
@ Smartguy
Garageband and iMovie are watered down tools for everyday people to use easily.
The real deals are ProTools for Mac and Final Cut which is exclusive to Apple. Those are the professional grade tools. Find videos of the insides of pro music and film editing studios, and 90% of the time you will see a Mac running Final Cut or ProTools.
Granted, I'm the kind of nerd that looks at what kind of gadgetry people have in every movie or TV show I watch.
I'd be lying if I said I had no use for After Effects though. For special fx… it's the easiest and best to use.
@ Big Blak
Also, if you are gonna have a PC for music…. don't even put it online.
It's not worth the risks.
@ N8R
What do you mean by that?
"Also, if you are gonna have a PC for music…. don’t even put it online.
It’s not worth the risks."
@ Big Blak
First off, there's the spyware and malware. I won't even touch the issue of viruses and anti-virus software that slows your machine's performance.
It's super easy to remote connect to an online PC once you obtain the IP. Everybody that does this knows the default Windows port. This means people can steal your music and copyright it before you are done even making it.
Every digital studio I've been to has a specific computer that is not on the internet just for music development. This is one of the first things they teach people at MI (Musicians Institute) or schools of the like.
Tell your girl that with a Mac, you won't need drivers for any external hardware you plug in. I'm really curious as to how that is more complicated. I'm willing to bet she doesn't have much experience with Macs.
There's 2 types of Mac haters. 1) People who don't really know the other side of the fence, and 2) People who make their living off the shittiness that is Windows (i.e. If Windows wasn't so shitty and more complicated than it needs to be, they wouldn't have a job). You're girl sounds like a cross of both.
@ BB
Yeah, I love the opinions and counter-arguments we get here too.
By the way, I heard there's a patch coming out for the new Borderlands DLC that will bump your level up to 69… we may want to wait until that drops.
@ N8R
I believe that is included with the DLC which I will have by 7pm EST!!! I told my gf and she was said "oh god don't they stop updating this game?"
@n8r
you are such an apple fanboy, but thats coming from the biggest sony fanboy of them all
(well, the 2nd biggest)
adobe premiere never freezes or glitches on me…in my experience its always been awesome and simple to use…i cant imagine how badass final cut must be
@N8R
I have no use for professional level tools but I think for the layman or someone who just wants to do home stuff the iLife package is just fine. One day I might graduate to something more complicated but in my line of work and with my hobbies I don't see it as necessary. I wouldn't mind getting Aperture though. FInalcut while it sounds amazing, just is way too expensive. I hear what you are saying though.
@BB
Maybe you should introduce her to something called Parallels, VMWare or even bootcamp. The first two will allow you to run Windows inside of OSX as if it were an application. VMWare and Parallels also have this awesome functionality where your Mac and Windows share media and document folders. So for instance when you create a spreadsheet using Numbers on a Mac you can click on Windows and then open that same spreadsheet in MS Office or OpenOffice. Whichever you have installed on your windows partition. Pretty neat how they share that kind of stuff. It gives you the best of both worlds. Bootcamp will allow you to boot into windows instead of running it on a virtual machine.
Honestly I'd just buy the iMac and tell her to deal with it lol. When I bought mine, I had to go to the Apple store without my girl. She is more in the line of a $600 PC is good enough.
@ NR8
Yea man you hit it on the button. I want a semi pro set up and the only thing I really need is a powerful machine I have everything else. And my gf has an omnidirectional mic with toggles to make it bi or unidirectional, man that mic is bad ass.
@ Big Blak
Tell her you will put Windows on it as well. Do this from what Smartguy said. I'm sure either him or I are willing to talk you through how to do it if you can't figure it out by yourself.
When she asks "why can't you put OSX on a PC"… say "That's called a Hackintosh and Apple will seize the HDD if you do that and the compatibility doesn't work as well."
Oh wow, I just built a MacPro for 15k. That's a bit steep.
@N8R
I don't think programmers make their living off of Window's staying shitty. Actually most programmers that I know prefer running Linux and programming in Java. Apple makes computers that are mind blowingly simple in order to capitalize on the fact that most people who use computers simply don't take the time to learn how to operate a computer. And as far as their work, actually programming things for Apple is so annoying because they demand that all apps (and I believe programs) be written in objective-C as their native language. This is a language that is difficult to port, and not widely used by anyone other than Apple (part of the reason it is difficult to port). Java on the other hand, used by Google (and the rest of the world and internet), is simple to learn, much more simple to write and port, and commonly used. So from a programmers position I don't understand how Apple would get rid of someone's job? Maybe if you are talking to someone who runs computer networks or something, but a programmer who is writing code does not always have a great incentive to love Apple.
The OS is simple to use on the surface for anything basic, but beyond that it is more difficult to use. Essentially, if something really goes wrong or a virus corrupts something, it would be harder to fix than if it happened on a PC.
When it comes to viruses and protecting your system, some stuff might slow down your computer, but in most cases you don't need a ton of software to be running to effectively keep your system clean. And also, macs are more susceptible to viruses than a windows PC ever has been. That is something that not enough people realize. Mac OS is actually incredibly easy to penetrate (haha) compared to Windows, but they only have at most 15% of the market share- thus making it not worth a person's time to write a virus for a mac.
Also, I would argue that you don't always (and I stress always) have to spend equal amounts of time with dueling OS's to be able to determine which one you like better. If you know the things that you want out of a system and you check in to how well an OS can perform the basic functions that you need to do on a regular basis, then I don't feel like I need to sit down and spend equal amounts of time with each. I have to use a mac constantly on campus and they are just annoying to deal with. I would much rather be able to use a pc, but some labs and printers are mac only. That's all I felt like typing about that for now. lol.
@BSU
Apple designs their software and hardware around one another. They aren't OEM so that is what sets them apart. Having said that I have never had a problem with any of my Apple computers. For that same matter I never had too much of a problem with Windows itself honestly. My problem with a windows machine is that hardware manufacturers put out a crap product. My computer is used all the time. I need it to work all the time. Apple does this for me so they have my business.
What makes a Mac annoying to use specifically? The buttons to max/min are on the opposite side? I can understand that. I think the OS as a whole just runs better quite honestly. Windows has some great functionality but nothing about it leaves me wishing OSX shared any of its core traits. OSX is built on Unix so whenever you have a Linux fanboy claiming that OSX is crap, it is more than likely because they think everything digital should be free lol.
@N8R
http://www.express.com/washable-flannel-wide-wais…
@ BSU
Find out what "Time Machine" is and get back to me.
I'll make it simple for you… it's like "System Restore"… except you can backup your Applications as well and you can go back in time and pull out just 1 Application or file if needs be. You do not have to restore the whole OS, but you can.
Apple (as you know) is not embraced by the laymans. Your argument about "people not knowing how to use a computer" is moot when you look at the Apple community. They are a professional media standard as well as a standard in schools. For networking, it comes down to affordability and Windows does the job on a business standard. Also, MS Office pretty much does the job for most people in a pretty simple manner.
Viruses…. don't make me laugh. I've debunked the market share analysis so many times, please don't make me do it again. There have been 5 Mac viruses like ever, Apple knows about them like the day after they launch, and issues security updates immediately. The reason they do this is because they are diligent about taking responsibility for their product unlike MS who outsources it to third parties (anti-Virus software). MS makes more money if your machine is insecure and you don't really know what you are doing, believe that.
@Smartguy
I am with them a lot on the everything should be free thoughts, I have that mentality with some things tech. I understand why they have their code written around their hardware, but they don't even accept ports from say C++ to objective-C with concerns to their app store. It has to be native language objective-C which is just a pure annoyance for a programmer to have to deal with. I know some people who only program for android because even though there are a lot of difficulties in programming for android phones, it is still better than programming for iOS.
I also did know that they are all unix based, but if you need to/or want to troubleshoot any features, functions, abilities, anything…I hear CS people and programmers complain constantly about how Apple hides everything just to make the first glance a good one and hides everything that people might need to use to troubleshoot or mess with a program, etc. Also, I don't like even the simple things…how a documents folder appears, how you navigate through folders, things like that. It is annoying to deal with I think. I also don't like the dock, I definitely prefer my toolbar and start menu. The organization of things is much more simple and logical to me on Windows than it ever has been on a mac. And like I told N8, I have to use one on a constant basis on campus so I am relatively familiar with the basics. Enough to know from that and using my fiance's laptop that I will be a Windows user for life.
@ Smartguy
Those don't look like they should cost $80.
Where it says "imported", I'm willing to bet they mean "Mexican" or "Chinese".
@BSU
Fair enough. I don't have a problem with windows necessarily. I have to disagree with the objection to the Apple requirements for iOS though. That is done for a few reasons one of which is of course to discourage the apps from appearing on competing platforms and because Apple also likes to control the environment. If that is one of their requirements so they can run tests to ensure the app does what it says it will do and will not harm the ecosystem on the iDevice then so be it. Remember, part of their pitch for the iDevices is that they will be secure, and always work. Maintaining that brand association of quality requires specific measures.
Devs can complain about coding all they want. A good programmer knows that coding is coding and after a while the difference is syntax. I think a lot of devs that complain do it for the sake of it or their App was rejected.
@N8R
Trust me, I know. It's a discussion I just let slide whenever I see one of those receipts or shopping bags.
Sorry its been a while since I've been on, lots and lots of work.
@ topic
I'm stoked for the new psp, I still play Street fighter, Parappa the rappa, and Mega man on a daily basis. I'm sure the 3DS will be cool, but I was over the 3d fad before it even started. I will say this though I don't think 3D will be a constant until they make it where you don't have to wear glasses to see it. So I think the 3DS is taking steps in the right direction.
@ BSU
As for your personal gripes, all of that is customizable. You can affix the dock so it doesn't disappear when you aren't looking for it which makes it the same as the toolbar, you can also do vice versa on a Windows machine so the toolbar does disappear. As for the programming concerns, I have questions:
1) Why is it that you can view websites written in Javascript then?
2) Why is it that Windows itself will run inside of OSX?
3) Why is it that there are programs like Crossover that will run individual Windows programs in OSX?
4) Is it possible that these programmers are just fixated on what they already know and just feel it's a pain in the ass to learn new things?
This is heart to heart here, I'm giving you privileged information when I say that if the working world switched to Mac, thousands if not hundreds of thousands of jobs would be lost because of all the upkeep that wouldn't need to be done. Final Cut alone did that in the film editing market. Where you needed rooms full of people and machines to edit and splice a film, one person can do it in the time it used to take 9 people to do it working 24 hours on it.
@ BSU
MS made those bigger programs? If they're third party, you see my point. Firewalls and all of that are on a Mac too.
You mention 1 exploit on a Mac when there are thousands found about MS at the same events. The only 100% secure OS is Ubuntu, and that's the one that's more difficult to use not to mention the lack of good software.
Ubuntu isn't attacked because the guys who write Malware use Ubuntu.
@N8R
The complaints about the dock specifically isn't about how to change it or anything, I just don't like having the dock there at all. I simply prefer the toolbar and start menu. Anything else that I need to find I will into my all programs list from the start menu. That's my preferred method and what I feel is the most efficient for giving me all the information I need and prioritizing what I use.
The time machine thing, gotcha. However, going with a secondhand experience here. That wasn't able to fix whatever my roommate had on his laptop. He had to get a couple days of tech support to get that thing working again.
You can view web pages written in javascript because it is a published web page. There is a difference between an app written in specific language and a web page written in a specific language. applications and programs are what need to be written in a specific language in order to compile and run on a given OS. Whereas the whereas the language used for a webpage determines the abilities you have to create your website. For instance, java is an image based language, and was the first language that allowed webpages to have moving parts (.gif's for example) and this language was VERY revolutionary for the web when it was introduced in 93 (or pretty close).
When it comes to why certain programs or OS's run within another, I couldn't tell you. I do not understand enough of the syntax of those languages or code to begin to ever see what is going on there. For perspective- I have written code that is maybe 100 lines at the longest. Simple functions, really. Nothing fancy whatsoever and they can really only be run from the compiler. The simplest of MS word programs takes at the bare minimum millions upon millions of lines of code just to run. I couldn't even begin to tell you how many lines of code an entire OS actually takes up. That is simply too far beyond me.
Sure you can probably chalk some complaints up to people being unwilling to change, but I don't think that really covers everything going on there. If you are going to write a program then I don't feel like you should be told where you can and can't publish it. It is a choice though, a hard one to make because obviously iOS has a huge market, but the people I know who program refuse to do so for iOS.
Firewalls are on Mac as well, I'm just saying that the ones on MS have always done very well for me and I have not usually needed anything more. If I have then I usually go with Norman.com to get my software and they have been very good.
Viruses- you mentioned that viruses are something that Apple takes care of very quickly. Maybe so, since I mentioned an exploit not a virus, but if they are that good with viruses why are they not that good with exploits? Which I think would be just as dangerous. Also, you only need one exception to defy the rule. The rule being "Apple knows about them like the day after they launch, and issues security updates immediately. The reason they do this is because they are diligent about taking responsibility for their product" and the exception being the exploit I mentioned.
Sure MS has problems, but it is actually harder to penetrate (haha again) MS OS, as opposed to Mac OS, and MS is constantly updating their software to fight off those attacks. Otherwise, with the amount of viruses created on a constant basis one of them would have been sure to infect my computer, and that isn't the case.
@Smartguy
That is a valid point about the iDevices and programming. I don't think a company should ever give a certain answer like that, because the iDevices don't always work. Point in case, my iPod touch. Obviously they are not able to always make sure their products work 100% of the time, so they are working their way around things by claiming to make sure that their products will always work, and then there are problems elsewhere. If your devices always work and they are dedicated to that then I should never have had the problems I have had with my iPod touches.
I also do understand more problems coming from PC hardware made cheaply by other companies rather than Windows. I think that is also something that people do not consider when they talk about Mac vs. Windows. And I think that is a big thing to consider.
Love today's discussion.
@thundercracker I can't afford "real" premiere. It would have to be Premiere Elements, which is buggy, doesn't support GPU acceleration, and doesn't have 64-bit support. The equivalent on Mac OS is Final Cut Express, which is almost all the Final Cut I'd need.
@Rpad
I was going to ask you because I remember a few weeks ago you asked that question. My girlfriend is more into video editing and I with sound.
@Ray
I got a Macbook I can sell ya. Comes with iWork. Original box as well. :)
@BSU
Exploit vs virus is different. I don't hold exploits over any software maker. Games are a really good example. Look how many bugs or just unknown events are found and exploited. To me an exploit is considerably less dangerous. A virus though was created with intent. Play on words I know but it's how I look at it.
The reason that Apple can't guarantee non failure is because nobody would buy a product that expensive. If they offered you an iPod for 5k that would always work 100% of the time you opt for the $300 80% machine lol. Quality and price are hand in hand.
@Smartguy
Yeah a virus is definitely different than an exploit, I agree, and I believe I said that in my response to N8 (if not then I meant to). But an exploit can be just as dangerous. With the exploit in Mac OS that I mentioned someone could easily write a virus to take advantage of that well known exploit which would be very bad for any mac user.
And you are right, no one would buy the $5k iPod that worked 100% of the time. I was just using that as an example of them wanting to say that their products won't fail because they are committed to not letting their products fail (which I fully expect a small percentage of any product to fail at some point, nothing has 100% efficiency) but there was an example of a product failure in another area. Just trying to point out the trickery of fine print and making sure you word things carefully, which is sometimes hard to do, but important for a big corporation to get right.
@ SG
Or maybe a Big Blak guy can take that off your hands?
@BB
Of course. You have my email if you need info. 13inch unibody. Core2Duo 4gb RAM. Comes with back up HDD for time machine. Paid $1200 (edu discount ftw).
@BSU
Indeed.
@Ray
This is one of the classic tech arguments…I'm actually surprised we haven't had this one here yet. haha.
@BB
Look at Stream Processors in the cards when you are shopping. Newegg tells you how many each card has. Stream processors are cores inside of the card that process data. They are clocked low and can only do simple tasks..like encode or decode. They can’t do both at the same time. If I’m not mistaken most cores in these cards are still mimicing early Larrabee tech (core2) architecture. However NVidia and ATI count their cores different. An NVidia card might show 100 cores but the AMD has 600. AMD has their cores grouped in bunches of. I don’t know any games that are taking advantage of that right now since Xfire is the easy way out. I think a 1GB card will be more than enough simply because in 2 years the 2GB cards will be cheap as hell. Keep that in mind. Also make sure the power supply you purchase will be ample for whatever card you choose.
RAM- Go DDR3 if possible. The latency of DDR3 is nonexistent these days, at least on OSX, and since you are doing editing you want speedy memory. I’d honestly recommend going with 8 gigs. Here’s why: I bought my 27inch iMac and it came with 4gigs and it ran fine until I started using more and more different types of software. I found that a lot of software tends to not be as efficient as my OS and would cause a bit of system lag. Since I upgraded my RAM I have no problems doing anything on my computer. There never were, I just don’t like lag really. I can play SC2 now without any lag. Before the single player had so much going on that I couldn’t run it in highest res. Just an example.
Processor: If you can wait the new Sandybridge processors from Intel are supposedly the pinnacle of engineering. Remember that a pinnacle comes with lots of $$$. That should make the Nehalem processors drop in price. The difference between i7 and i5 are the actual cores. i5 chips do not do core virtualization. The i7 chips do however. While the i5 maxes out at 4 cores the i7 has 4 cores and will run on 4 more virtual cores. The i7 also has the benefit of overclocking itself when it is running a single core application. My i7 OCs to damn near 4ghz. Do not waste your time on an i3. Just buy a Core2Duo instead. They are too similar.
Damn it. The Sony Nex-5 is almost exactly what I need. If it had a 3.5" microphone input, I could totally use it for interviews.
That is a bad ass camera.
@ BSU
Thanks!
@SG
Wow that’s what I’m talking about! That wasn’t to long or confusing, my girl might be able to get a corporate discount where we could get a 2GB NVidia or AMD for the price of a 1GB. If that is the case we will go with the 2GB version. As far as ram goes we have access to all kinds of memory. She works in an IT department and there is literally 1000’s of gigs of ram not being used by them and their boss can care less if they take some for personal uses.
@ N8R & SG
I want that but my girls is gay and doesn’t like iMac, she thinks the Os is complicated! She is crazy she thinks Windows is so smooth and easy, that is one thing I will never understand about her. I use Garageband on my supper shitty G3(/G4 on a good day) and it gets the job done but it takes about an hour or two to make a song with just 8 to 10 midi tracks and then when I hit play 9 out of 10 times the comp freezes because its just so damn old. Never mind mixing in real time, ha, that is non existent on that junk. Man I would kill to mix down in real time I really miss that.
@ N8R
LMFAO!!! Yea thats right you nailed her (wait what!) Mac inexperience and she does IT for the clinic we work in.
Oh ok I see what you mean now, now that I think about it I was never on the internet when making music on a PC another reason Macs are great. Damn this is why I love this place I can get counter argument pointers and the facts to back it up. I just need a tower I am going to hook it up to my hdtv via hdmi.
@Big Blak
My fiance is on your side of this, I am on your girl’s side. I think Windows is so easy to operate. I love the Windows 7 OS. I have had to work with Mac OS X, and leopard, snow leopard, etc. All those OS’s that an apple computer runs…cannot stand working on them. The OS is so simplistic I cannot stand to use my fiance’s laptop even for a little bit. I prefer to use Windows any day over a mac.
That being said, I do know that mac is becoming the standard in many media related industries (no matter how much I use media related programs on a mac though, they always feel so much better on a PC) and you might just be better off to get a mac if you can afford it. You could always build a PC and double boot it to run a mac OS and windows OS as well.
@N8R
There are other types of mac haters out there too. People who prefer Windows even though they have seen and used both Mac and Windows and still feel that Windows operates better. They also usually don’t understand the benefits of a mac because they can do the same things people do with a mac on their PC, just better. Or they like Linux. Also, I don’t know one programmer who prefers mac. They usually all hate Apple actually. So there a lot more people out there who do not prefer Apple or Mac other than the two you listed. There are a lot of people that fall in to your categories though.
@ BSU
The other “categories” you listed fall into my categories. Programmers fall into category 2. The people who have experienced both I guarantee haven’t spent an equal amount of time with both. People tend to stick with what they know. If you want to add a third category, 3) Stubborn… might be it.
There is a “depending on what you do” factor involved as you expressed to BB. For media… the standard has been Apple for like 20 years. It started when the GPU’s and processors where just superior for graphics in the 90’s and now it’s a matter of software and compatibility to professional grade hardware.
I’ll put it like this. I do IT and graphic design where I work. Will I tell you guys and keep a Macc at my house to do the super cool things I want to do with graphics, music, and video… yes. Will I tell my boss to switch to Mac… NOOOOOO! I’d be out of a job if he did that.
I have another friend who turned down an IT job at the NYSE and is currently pondering moving to Vietnam to be a network systems analyst for Intel. The reason he didn’t jump on both of these opportunities, is because he runs his own shops and servers and makes like $500,000 a year doing what he already does. He was telling me about his workload he had one day when I said “Why not just tell them to switch to Mac?” and he said exactly what I just told you… “Pfft, I’d be out of business if I did that.”
@Big Blak
Hey I also forgot to mention, L4D and L4D2 DLC coming out in a couple weeks. My fiance has my copy of L4D so I will only be able to play the L4D2 DLC until I get another copy, and I plan on being on that plenty once it hits (October 12th I believe).
@Iceman
Speaking of DLC, I am also going to be picking up the Alan Wake DLC this month (October 5th is when I think the new one hits). I know you sent me a message on XBL asking me what I thought, and I honestly don’t remember if I got a response sent out or not. Anyways…I really liked the game, some of the mechanics were not so great (I am not a huge fan of 3rd person views). The story was good, but confusing at points. I liked the flow of the story throughout the game, I like the movie Secret Window a lot and the game reminded me of that movie in a way. I would definitely recommend it to anyone looking for a good and interesting story. I am going to probably pick it up soon because I have a couple of late fees that I don’t feel like paying at the video store, and it will give me more time to work through both DLC’s and Nightmare mode. I figured another DLC would be out soon enough so I just held off on the first one so that I could do both at the same time. Definitely looking forward to both DLC’s to add something to the story, but I am looking for some clarification here. What were the plot points that you felt had holes in them? I am pretty sure you said some of it had to do with the first batch of DLC, so I understand if you don’t mention that part. But I am curious what you thought those points were.
@ Thundercracker
What’s the biggest project you’ve ever tried on Premiere? Have you ever tried to put together a full-length Blu-Ray movie?
Remember, I’m talking “professional grade” quality here. For piecing together home movies or even working with standard definition… Premiere is good enough.
I wouldn’t even say I’m a total fanboy. As I told BSU above, It REALLY depends on what you are trying to do.
@ Smartguy
For the layman, iLife is great… no arguments here.
I’m just under the impression that BB wants to put together a professional grade studio with as little headaches as possible. That’s where I’m coming from.
@ All in Comp Convo
Give me more cannon fodder. She is dead set on getting a fucking PC which is nice and all but fuck, I want a Mac. I don’t need anything but a damn tower, I have several monitors (screens) and nice monitors (speakers/L&R/5.1) with a mean ass sub for awesome bad ass bass, 49key Midi keyboard, and a wireless mouse and keyboard. I just need a beast of a machine that can keep up with my brain when I’m making music.
@BB
Put it to her like this (pun intended) “The software I need doesn’t run on a PC”. If that fails, just go buy it yourself. I’ve noticed that alot of Windows IT ppl are dead set against anything but f’n XP with service pack 2. I don’t know what your budget is, but if it can afford a Mac, I’d go that route. There really is no substitute. Take another month to save up or apply for an Apple credit card. Just get the damn thing.
More story on my purchase to help you. My iMac cost $2200. So I went to go buy it w/o her. Once I got it home and set up, there was no way in hell I was taking it back. She was either going to deal with it or kiss my ass. I don’t say shit when she buys $80 pants at Express lol. Long story short she isn’t an Apple fan but realizes that my machine is a friggin beast and likes it after using it. In fact, she has commandeered my Macbook now. Just do it. Like TIger.
@ Smartguy
$80 DOLAR PANTS!!!!!
Is there a TV in them or something? Do they pick up Sirius Radio?
@ Big Blak
The software stance is good call too.
My girl was all about PC’s too. I got my Mac though which was MY computer for just me and what I need a computer for. About 6 months went by with me having one in the house and all the things we needed to do to maintain her PC and all the things I didn’t have to do to my Mac and how smooth it ran, when she came to me and said “Nate, for Christmas I want a Macbook Pro”.
The experience and comparative factors help.
@N8R
I have a friend who uses time machine with his macbook pro, so I am a little familiar with it. I don’t use system restore on my laptop or any pc I have ever owned, so either one of those things aren’t really relevant to me.
As for apple being a standard in schools, the only places they are a standard in that I have ever heard of are the media departments of colleges. And even then they are not mandatory, just recommended. So that still only leaves them with being a standard in media, either way you cut it.
When it comes to viruses if you only want to talk about the companies being responsible for their products and making sure they are kept in good running condition. Then that would explain why they keep the same exploits around in their systems. When Snow leopard came out one of the big things I remember reading about was how the exploit that hackers use every year at tech defense conference and such was still not fixed. There is a simple enough hack for a hacker to do that goes through safari and allows the person to exploit the entire computer. This is something that Apple has been told about constantly, especially considering there was one specific hacker who found the exploit and used it for several years in a row at a national testing of computer systems security. Have they fixed this? No. To the best of my knowledge on the matter the exploit has still not been fixed. And they take care of these things practically the next day you say?
Also, I know that it is very possible to get a virus on a mac…my roommate had it happen to him last year. The only time I have ever gotten a virus on my computers is when I go looking for trouble (visiting torrent sites usually trying to get a program download) and they are never something that Window’s doesn’t fix for me with MS firewalls, defender and MS security. If I need something more I have a couple bigger programs I can run to seek out a virus, but MS has always done a great job at protecting my computers.
@ BSU
(sorry, I forgot this)
When I mentioned Time Machine, I meant that as in that’s how you get rid of a virus. 2 to 6 clicks of the mouse.
@ray
yeah like i said, ive never used final cut, so i can comment on neither its awesomeness, nor its awesomelessness
@n8r
you are right in saying that ive never compiled a video in which more than 8gbs of disc space were needed….generally what i do are videos for my friends. For example, I took some clips from old love connection dates and placed my friends in as the daters. My videos come out pretty god damn amazing. I just needed moving video on video capability. Premiere pro kicks ass for what i need
to be clear though, id love to be able to afford a 2000 dollar computer, specifically a macbook, but its 2010 now, and i look at 2000 dollar computers much the same way i look at 100 dollar dvd players
@Thundercracker
haha. I'm gonna use that one day.