Welcome to Coffee Talk! Let’s start off the day by discussing whatever is on your (nerd chic) mind. Every morning I’ll kick off a discussion and I’m counting on you to participate in it. If you’re not feelin’ my topic, feel free to start a chat with your fellow readers and see where it takes you. Whether you’re talking about videogames, WWE giving Sheamus and Drew McIntyre championships, last Saturday’s fantastic day of boxing, or Accenture dropping Tiger Woods, Coffee Talk is the place to do it.
As I mentioned last week, I’ll be counting down my five favorite games of 2009 in this week’s Coffee Talk columns and I’d love for you to join me! Let me know what your favorite games of the year were in the comments section. Remember, this isn’t about what games you thought were “best”. I want to know what you had the most fun with in 2009.
#5 Pokemon Platinum — Yes, I’m a Pokemon addict that has put more than 600 hours into Pokemon Pearl. As someone that loves breeding Pokemon for competitive battling, several of the additions in Pokemon Platinum
Of course Pokemon Platinum is rooted in the fantastic RPG gameplay that millions and millions of players have enjoyed for years. Weavile, I choose you!!!
#5 Brutal Legend:
First off, I grew up listening to much of the music featured in this game. Secondly, Tim Schaffer makes good, funny games. I found that the overall experience in this game outweighed the sum of it's parts for me.
spoiler potential: brutal legend
Agreed Brutal Legend is my personal number 5. Just plain fun, and a good story. Favorite cinematic part: Mr. Crowley playing while Ophelia jumped in the sea.
Honorable mentions to the first Uncharted. I finally got around to it and can't believe I missed out!
Gotta include MegaMan 9 and Splosion Man. Those games will make a grown man cry with their difficulty.
Nice pick. I enjoyed Platinum while my step-son was with us during the summer, but after he left there was very little that kept me going back to it. I am more of a collector by nature, so attempting to acquire the different species was very entertaining, but it really kind of just lost steam after a while.
My number 5 this year was… inFamous. Super Powers rock no matter how you slice them, and Sucker Punch did a fantatsic job making you feel like you had the run of the entire city… as long as the power was on. When it was off you were slinking along rooftops, picking off semi-turrets from a distance and pacing yourself until you found a generator you could not only drain for grenade-sustaining electricity, but also keep powered with your normal blasts. Add in a neat collection mechanic (being able to scan for shards… though being at 342 out of 350 is not an admirable position) and there is nothing but win here.
Honorable mentions go to: Mass Effect (did not come out this year but I played it this year; BioWare dominance as per usual, can not wait for ME2), Assassin's Creed 2 (need 40 more feathers for Platinum, game was incredibly entertaining, but so far there is 0 staying power after finishing the playthrough, other games higher on the list are still going strong), Brutal Legend (Sorry Tim, story was awesome, RTS meh, GPS needed sooner… still planning to support DLC though).
Unrelated football note: I hate the Eagles, but I'm pretty certain that the only way to stop DeSean Jackson is with a sniper from the upper deck.
My number 5 game was Guitar Hero World Tour. though I have not had as much fun playing online as I did Guitar Hero 3, it was a game that my wife and I could play together, and our friend could play with us from Fl.
My number 5 was going to be 1vs 100
BUT… on friday, the live game was on. After playing all year, I finally got in to the mob. I was still in the mob when it came down to 1 vs 42. The question was "What's another name for a natural satellite?" and of the choices the answer was "moon". I answered moon… and the game's server crashed.
I was mad as hell.
Unrelated note: Dexter last night was crazy.
#5 Wolverine
I think I played though that game at least 3 times and I wouldn't mind playing though it again. I am happy they finally got a superhero game right.
W@Slicky: Wolverine was surprisingly good. The film getting delayed and giving the development team more time clearly made a difference. I wish Raven had worked on the latest Marvel Ultimate Alliance game too.
@Nightshade386 I wasn't surprised. I like Raven. The company also made a wise decision to hire some old God of War talent to work on the Wolverine game — totally makes sense for the character.
@Ray: Let's be honest Ray. Any movie tie in game that doesn't blow is a surprise, no matter who works on it.
Another thing Wolverine had going against it: it had multiple colons in the title. (X-Men Origins: Wolverine: Uncaged edition) That's usually a kiss of death. It's like a rule of life: The more colons in a title, the more it's going to suck.
Was there a non-Uncaged Edition?
@Larcenous: yeah, on the PS2 & Wii. No gore.
@Nightshade386 That's a generalization. There are plenty of good to great movie games. They're just in the minority because a lot of companies spend too much on the license, leaving too little for development.
@LarcenousLaugh Wouldn't that be the caged edition?
Like LarcenousLaugh, my #5 pick is inFAMOUS. I beat the game as good twice and evil twice. Sucker Punch did a great job at their first crack at the PS3. The game made me really feel like a powerful super hero jumping from rooftops to rooftops and recharging my powers from power lines and other electrical sources. Enjoyed the story too. Looking forward to inFAMOUS 2.
@Ray: It was the first good movie game I've played in a long time. Maybe we're just playing different games.
Unrelated note: The Falcons had the Saints sweating yesterday and should have won the game but we came up short once again.
@R8R
That sucks. I still haven't made it in the mob, course I only play when it is video game trivia so it's not like I have chance.
@topic
I didn't even make it to the elite four. I should probably pick that game up except The World Ends With You keeps bringing me back to it. /sigh My favorite single player game this year was ODST. The only problem I had with this game was that the only way to figure out the story was to collect the audio tapes. It ruined the detective aspect of the story IMO, but the gameplay hasn't been better.
@Nightshade
Have you played Spiderman 2?
@RRoD: At least your team didn't score 38 points and lose…..
Seriously, since Kenny Phillips went down, the Giants secondary has been a joke.
Yeah, but Spiderman 2 was last gen. I consider that "a long time ago."
@ Sandrock
Yes, it totally sucks. I thought it was just me at first, but then after some research I found out that the whole server crashed and everyone got locked out.
@ games based on movies.
In general, I agree with Nightshade. I can only think of a handful of good to great games based on movies. Matrix, Spiderman 2, Wolverine… and I'm drawing a blank.
There's also a movie called "Too Many Colons" but despite what you may have read on the public restroom wall, I've never seen it.
Where do Star Wars games fit into the movie based theory? Are we just counting the ones that are named the same as a movie (in which case, a few of those are good)? Or do all Star Wars games fit in there (in which case, a good deal of those were good)?
If it's the former, than Matrix has to be excluded from the competition as well.
@N8R: I tend to think if it's not a direct movie tie in, (same name, same launch window) it doesn't count.
@RROD
I knew that game would be tough. Atlanta has a great staff, always well prepared. How bout that Reggie Bush though?
Best movie game = Escape From Butcher Bay
@Smartguy
Reggie good for outrunning people to the sidelines on goal line plays. Thomas could have done the same thing.
He also burned them on a 21 yard screen. So fast lol.
Next year Atl will push NOLA for the division.
@N8R Pete Wanat has worked on a few — Riddick, Scarface, and The Thing. King Kong, The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King, and The Warriors were good, but not great. You can find plenty more if you dig, but it's hardly the case of movie games being automatic failures.
@Smartguy
Again, anybody can run a screen pass when the blocking is there. Reggie did nothing impressive. Everybody was blocked. Thomas could have done the same thing. Tampa Bay will win the division next year. You forget our worst to first tradition.
@Ray: Most of the games you just listed weren't released during the movie's run. I mean, Scarface, The Warriors & The Thing weren't even released in the same decade. For a game like Wolverine to come out at the same time as the movie and be as good as it was is quite a different story than Pete Wanat getting as much time as he wants to make a Scarface game. That's why it was so surprising that Wolverine was so good.
@ R Pad
I had posthumously thought of the LOTR games (they count) and King Kong probably counts, but I never played it (hated the movie).
We're mainly considering the bad PR stunts studios use to rape gamers with. I seriously think that they outnumber the gentle love making that other studios have given us.
LOTR games though, were alright. I also gotta give it up to the Spongebob Movie game. I played that for weeks with my son.
@ Scarface game
One of the better games on Wii for sure. I had to play that once the kids were asleep because every time my left hand moved, it would spew out Tony Montana style vulgarities.
It really added to the character.
@Nightshade386 Most? Riddick, King Kong, and The Lord of the Rings games were listed too. You're being selective. Again, there are other examples to be found. Certainly enough to negate your statement of, "Any movie tie in game that doesn’t blow is a surprise, no matter who works on it."
@anyone If the budget holds up — which in this economy is a huge question — I'd keep my eye on Iron Man 2. It should make up for the first game.
@Nightshade386 Again, you said, "Any movie tie in game that doesn’t blow is a surprise, no matter who works on it." You made a blanket statement. I listed a few games that were good and now I'm cherry picking. You are indeed being selective and ignoring a trend. Licensed games aren't as bad as they were ten years ago and they're getting better.
@Ray: First off, I consider movie based games and movie tie-ins to be completely different things. So when you throw out The Thing, it's a different conversation than Iron Man. I think that's a fair point considering that the development schedules of a movie based game aren't tied to the release of the film.
Secondly, good movie tie in games are so rare, that such a blanket statement can be honestly made while still accounting for the rare good game. There are literally a dozen or more movie tie in games ever year. Picking the 3 or 4 that in the last 5 years that don't suck is cherry picking. Thus, the rare good game is a surprise given the overall landscape. A pleasant one, but a surprise nonetheless.
Side note – nothing makes my heart happier then taking children to task in the Feed when it comes to Batman.
@Larcenous: Yeah, I saw that. I always laugh in general when a teaser trailer sends everyone into a speculative tizzy. "That poster means that Two Face is the main villain! And Commander Shepard's a cyborg Geth!"
I'm really looking forward to that game. The first one was outstanding.
@Nightshade386 I just listed three or four off the top of my head. If I wanted to, I could easily find more. It's not cherry picking. If someone doesn't like movie games, that's totally cool. You run your own gaming web site and I think your short-sighted opinion is a dangerous one to have. Saying most movie tie-in games are bad is pretty much worthless. Most games, in general, are bad if you want to give things a fair perspective.
Most movies are pretty bad too now that I think of it.
side note: i downloaded the dante's inferno demo last night from PSN. I can't comment on the game since it took over 2 hours to download. A 1 gig file took over two hours. My internet is plenty fast to handle that in less than half the time. I really hate PSN at times.
@Ray: You listed 6 good movie games, only one of which was this gen. So when I said, “(Wolverine) was the first good movie game I’ve played in a long time,” it's not a crazy opinion. Wolverine's the only good one I've played in a few years.
I realize that these games face challenges as far as development time due to the release dates being locked with the films. But am I supposed to judge a game less harshly because it's a movie game, even though it still costs $60? That seems a lot more "dangerous" than going in with a skeptical eye.
@Ray – I believe you can name a bunch, but I also think that the percentages are in the low 30s when it comes to highly lauded movie titles. And by movie title, it has to be titles that are released within a week of the movies release that deal with the same content of the movie released, some of the games mentioned do not meet that criteria.
That being said, there are two things in this world I hate: Blanket Statements, and the fact that all movie games suck.
@Dante's – I played the demo. It was interesting. I don't know if it was enough to get me to purchase it right out, but the combat was pretty good, and the cross attacks, as well as Sphere Grid for abilities seemed like they could add a good bit of interest to the title. I am not sold on the art style, and am kind of at a loss as to why Dante felt he needed to sew a cross on to himself. On top of that… Death was kind of a pussy. I expect the Collector of Souls to be able to take on a sinning crusader who just got stabbed in the back without braking much of a sweat.
@Nightshade386 I listed a bunch without giving it much thought. As I said, you could easily find more, but you don't appear to be interested in it. I think your opinion is outdated and a cop out. It's easier to dismiss these games than to remember the ones that actually worked. I'm positive that there's more out there than you think or remember.
You also keep bringing up the point of King Kong being the only current generation game I mentioned, which has nothing to do with anything. As I said, I didn't put much thought into the list and was easily able to come up the several good games. It wouldn't be hard to find more.
@N8R Movies…music…television…games — there's more bad than good out there.
@LarcenousLaugh That would still be a superior percentage in baseball. Ha! Like I said, I think it's part of trend that's changing for the better. There will always be licensed games that are bad, simply because they don't get enough development time and/or dollars, but a lot of publishers are seeing the value of making a good to great movie game that can be pushed when the movie comes out and when the DVD is released.
@Ray – touche sir. I think outside of shovelware we are seeing an increase in the good games that are coming out. I am a firm believer that we need bad games though to appreciate the good. As per Stephen King – "It takes a Robot Monster a Haunting of Hill House." or something to that effect.
@LarcenousLaugh I agree. Good and bad define each other, like good and evil, and — for old times sake — me and Leahy.
@ray: Here's why my bringing up King Kong is relevant:
http://www.metacritic.com/games/xbox360/alpha/
Unless I missed one while skimming this list (which is possible, I am human), other than King Kong (8.0) and Wolverine (7.5), the Bee Movie Game is the only direct movie tie in released along with the film this gen to average a critical score of 7.0 or higher on Metacritic (7.1 with a 4.8 user average). So when I said, "Any movie tie in game that doesn’t blow is a surprise, no matter who works on it," apparently I wasn't accounting for the magical powers of Jerry Seinfeld.
I suppose the argument could thus be made about what review score constituted "good," as there are a few on the list in the mid to low 60's. But that seems like another argument all together.
My favorite character from Blazing Saddles is Taggert.
I just reread that quote… It takes a Robot Monster to apprecaite a Haunting of Hill House. stupid mind thinking quicker then I type.
@Smartguy – I was always a fan of The Wako Kid. Fast hands man. Fast hands.
@Larcenous
"Somebody go back and get us a shitload of dimes!"
@Nightshade386 What about The Bourne Conspiracy? How many movie games are listed there? What percentages of those games are good (by your standards) relative to what's "good" on the whole list?
I bought Bourne Conspiracy for $10. Alright for the price.
@Ray: Bourne Conspiracy was a good game. I liked it well enough. It's a 7.1 on that list. But it wasn't released along with the film. So it doesn't really line up with the discussion at hand since it wasn't a direct tie in.
As for the rest…that's supposed to be the full list of 360 games by alphabetical order. So if that's correct, it should be around 500 games. I'm not skimming them all again just to play devil's advocate. But let's say there's 30 movie games that meet the criteria. If there are only 3 "good" ones, that's 10%. That's well below the Mendoza line. Considering they all come out at $60 a piece, that's not an acceptable percentage.
@Nightshade386 That's not what I was asking. Take the number of movie/TV games that are 70 or above and compare it to the number of total games that are 70 or above.
@Ray: I'm sure it's higher than 10%.
It should also be noted the the highest rated Movie tie in topped out at an 80, where as there are a significant number of "other" games that reach well above that. Yet most of these games street at the same $60 price point as AAA titles. But many other games release at lower price points. So if my expectations for these games should naturally be lower, than the price should be lower too.
Obviously with movie tie in's there's a much smaller sample size. Which is why when one is good it actually stands out.
@Nightshade386 Sure, but I don't even think your 10 percent is accurate. That was a guess of a quick skim. The point being is that you made a blanket statement that you haven't supported with much. I pointed out a bunch of games that were good to great. That didn't do anything for you, so you introduced a list into the debate, but didn't extract anything concrete out of it.
Ultimately, I think your opinion is just a snap judgement. I'm sure someone could come up with a long list of movie games that are good to great.
@Movie game numbers – logically speaking, the percentage of one really means nothing as compared to the other. Unless the percentage turns out to be above 50% for movie games, that technically still means that most are bad. When compared to the number of games overall that fit into that category, even if the numbers are the same, it doesn't prove anything but the original post. Now if you wanted to say that because most games suck, most movie games would have to suck, then that percentage difference would mean something. Otherwise it's just an empty stat. It's like comapring apples to all available fruits.
@LarcenousLaugh That's really the point though. Specifically saying most movie games suck is meaningless if most games sucks. It's as useless as saying most action games suck.
@Ray: You can keep moving the goalposts of the discussion all you want, but at no point have you discredited my opinion that most movie tie in games aren't very good. A grand total of 3 with a score above 70 this console generation speaks volumes about the subject.
@Nightshade386 I'm not moving the goal posts at all. You're the one that just changed your argument. Here's your quote again:
"Any movie tie in game that doesn’t blow is a surprise, no matter who works on it."
This is the statement that I think is ignorant. Either you get surprised a lot or your statement is meaningless. Are you surprised when action games don't blow? Are you surprised when adventure games don't blow?
There are probably more than three movie games on that list that are above 70. You already missed one.
Holy Shit! You can move the goal posts? That would have helped me a ton in Philospohy.
@LarcenousLaugh Ha! If you could get away with it in any class, it would be that one.
@Tetsunoku vs. Capcom – I have been wondering this for a while now, and this may just be the forum to ask. Why is damage displayed in the billions on the side of the screen?
@Nightshade and Ray – Don't make me turn this car around!
@Larcenous
there is an easier way….
"what goalposts?"
@Ray: I haven't changed my argument at all. I make the point of saying "tie in" in the quote you keep bringing up, yet you keep bringing up movie based games that weren't tied to a film release to bolster your argument. You can't look at a game like The Bourne Conspiracy with it's own dedicated development schedule in the same light as a direct tie in like Iron Man that's tied to a movie release.
Maybe you just like more of these games than I do. That's fine. But that doesn't make my opinion ignorant especially when the review scores back it up. If you wanna say that I'm wrong because "most games suck," than how does that make me wrong? It doesn't change the point i made, it simply changes the context…or moves the goalposts if you will.
@Nightshade386 I didn't say you were wrong. I said your statement was pointless and you haven't backed it up with anything. Again, it would be easy to find a healthy list of tie-in games that are good. You're restricting the debate to current generation titles and not even bothering to get accurate numbers to support your argument. Until then, I find your statement to be pointless.
@Smartguy – true. One does not need goal posts to kick a ball. And most philosophy really is just a discussion without a point. Sure it starts out with one, but at the end you just want a cheeseburger with a milkshake or cold beer.
@larcenous
I always found philosophy to be one of those classes where the only grade you could get was an A.
@Smartguy – the only way to get anything but an A is to avoid participation. My last phil professor wanted to make his class pass fail but the department insisted because it was entry level that it needed to have a grade.
@Ray: How am I wrong for using only current gen games when you said (paraphrasing) that I'm ignoring a trend that licensed games are getting better (post #37)? Well, better than what? Isn't that a blanket statement? Does that make you ignorant too?
And "better" certainly doesn't mean "good" by default, which was ultimately my point. Overall, these games haven't been good in my opinion, and the review scores tend to back up my opinion.
@Nightshade386 Did you not ready my last post? Actually, I don't think you read my last two replies. You're not backing your argument up with anything since you didn't bother to get an accurate number from the list you cited.
Secondly, I never called you ignorant. I said your statement was ignorant.
Lastly, I keep saying that your original statement was pointless. It's an easy thing to throw out there without thought. You never bothered to answer my question about what other kinds of games "surprise" you.
Dang. Looks like the Red Sox just signed John Lackey.
@Ray: To answer you question from post #55, there at 792 games on the list, and 407 of them have a score above 7.0. That's 51% overall. There are a total of 84 games listed at a 5.0 (or red rating) or lower) That's 11%.
There were 26 movie tie in games on the (so my guess of 30 was pretty damn close. The 3 I mentioned earlier were the only ones to have a score of 7.0 or higher. That's 12% There were 6 games that got a 5.0 (red rating) or lower. That's 23%.
If you wanna double check it, go ahead:
http://www.metacritic.com/games/xbox360/scores/
@Nightshade386 Great! You have solid numbers on one platform for one generation. Does this mean you should be surprised when a movie game doesn't "blow"? I don't think so — not if you're not going to be surprised if any other title in a genre or sub-genre doesn't blow.
@Ray: I'll take my chances with an overall 50% success rate vs the 12% success rate of the genre in question, especially since the genre in question almost always gets the shaft in development time and dollars.
@Nightshade386 So you're going to base your opinion on an incomplete genre where the majority of games, thus far, were developed in a rough economy? Never mind that the numbers are only for one platform or that more than half the games scored above a 7, that's still not the best idea.
2Ray: No, I'm basing my opinion off of the fact that most of the movie tie in games I've played have sucked. When a movie game comes out I'll give it the same chance as anything else. But, I won't dismiss the trend out of hand either.
Anyway, can we kiss and make up now? Well…not kiss….but you know what I mean.
my number 5 is call of duty mw2, which is a shame because i expected so much more
i HATE the maps and the camping is way out of control…people who camp kill that game
@Nightshade386 Ewwwww. There's nothing to make up for. It was a fun debate. It's good to examine your opinions like that. I think it was good for both of us.
My number 5 is probably guitar hero 5. I have had a lot of great parties becuase of that game, and saved some of my friends failing parties. Lol.
Pokemon platinum looked good, I stuck with pearl for this year though. Once I can play it I'm sure the new Zelda will be amazing.
@Ray: You can cherry pick a couple of games that were good, but they’re the exceptions that prove the rule. Overall most movie games are terrible, thus it’s a surprise when a good one comes out.
But even still, LotR & Riddick were last gen games. King Kong was a launch title. So when I say “(Wolverine) was the first good movie game I’ve played in a long time.” I’m not being selective.
I know I'm late but I'm going to chime in. It's number 5 because it wasn't a full game but The Ballad of Gay Tony was a much needed download for GTA4. I should start by saying I didn't care for TLAD much. The biker gang didn't seem to do it for me. What I liked a bout TBOGT was the introduction of new vehicles. Especially the helicopter and tank. Explosions are the name of the game in this chapter of GTA4 and it really is fun to get in a tank and blow through traffic. Also, They added a lot of what GTA should have had the first time around, such as Parachutes and base jumping. I always felt that the Annihilator helicopter was lacking without missiles but the Buzzard is perfect for tearing up the skies. The story is both fun and easy to get in to. It's a shame this is the last download but here's to the next GTA.
@ The movie debate – I wonder if there are any 85+ movie games from this gen, how about 90+? I think that last AAA movie game I played was Goldeneye. It may not be fair for me to assume this but I do think it is surprising when a movie game is actually good. I don't own any from this gen that I can recall.
Unrelated:
The Madden curse is still alive. The curse already claimed co-cover boy Troy Polomalu and last night the curse got the other cover boy Larry Fitzgerald too. The curse is real.
I really hope Drew Brees is never on the cover
For any non believers, we can add Polamalu and Fitz to the 2010 cover. wow, 2 for 1 this year Madden. maybe when that waste of a sportscaster retires or dies the curse will end.
2009 – Brett Favre (9-7) – Favre and the Jets started out hot, but Brett injured his throwing arm and the season quickly fell to 9-7 after starting out 8-3.
2008 – Vince Young (10-6) – Injured Right Quadricep in Week 5. Finished with 9 TD and 17 INT, went 10-6 but lost in Playoffs.
2007 – Shaun Alexander (9-7) – Missed six regular season games with a broken foot.
2006 – Donovan McNabb (6-10) – McNabb suffered a Sports Hernia injury during Week 9, Eagles finished 6-10
2005 – Ray Lewis (9-7) – Torn Hamstring in Week 6
2004 – Michael Vick (5-11) – The Falcons QB sustained a broken leg and missed 11 regular season games.
2003 – Marshall Faulk (7-9) – Had four less touchdowns and 400 less yards then previous year after four straight 1300+ yard seasons, on a 7-9 Rams team.
2002 – Daunte Culpepper (5-11) – Missed four games with injury
Most of the Madden cover boys have never gotten hurt until they graced the Madden cover.
I forgot that Vick broke a leg.