Welcome to Coffee Talk! Let’s start off the day by discussing whatever is on your (nerd chic) mind. Every morning I’ll kick off a discussion and I’m counting on you to participate in it. If you’re not feelin’ my topic, feel free to start a chat with your fellow readers and see where it takes you. Whether you’re talking about videogames, dreaming of Yu Darvish in a Yankees uniform, famous atheists fighting cancer, or when NBA basketball will be back, Coffee Talk is the place to do it.
I’ve always hated that Netflix on Xbox 360 is a “Gold” feature. You’re already paying for Netflix service. You’re already paying for the Internet bandwidth. Why should the cost be built into your Xbox Live subscription? That’s crap…yet more and more services on Xbox 360 are requiring Xbox Live Gold, despite them being paid for already.
Last week RPadholic smartguy pointed out that the next update for AT&T U-Verse on Xbox 360 will require Gold membership. Again, you’re already paying for U-Verse service, so why should you have to pay more for using your Xbox 360 to access it? Even AT&T realizes the charge is stupid and in a preemptive measure stated that it will credit the cost of a one-year subscription to Xbox Live Gold to its customers.
Charging for Netflix, U-Verse, etc. just seems like an artificial way for Microsoft to create “premium” features for Xbox Live Gold. It’s coattail riding or double dipping instead of actually creating compelling services that justify the cost of Xbox Live Gold. For some reason, I expected gamers to be angrier about these charges and practices. Gamers are typically loud complainers, but the typical outrage just isn’t there. What’s the deal?!?
Anyway, let me know how you feel about double dipping on Xbox Live. Is it a fair practice? Is it bogus? Does it make you angry like Mr. McGee does?
Fore?
As a charter member of the SDF i will refrain from participating other than to say,
"does this surprise you?"
Unless it's a good mmo, an access fee shouldn't be charged.
Fore!
I dunno. Depending on the free games, PlayStation Plus can be a good value.
I have to disagree. An mmo is too different than a random puzzle or arcade type of game to demand a recurring fee.Sent from my iPhone 4
If a three-month sub costs the same as three good arcade games then how is that not a good value? All the other features are gravy.
I'm under the impression you lose access once your sub runs out. Is that incorrect?Sent from my iPhone 4
That's correct, but you get access to them again if your sub is reactivated.
Hmm..I don't see an arcade game being worth a sub like an mmo if that is the case.Sent from my iPhone 4
An Aussie mag revealed that Mass Effect 3 will have multiplayer. I knew about this for a bit, but couldn't break embargo. I can't reveal details yet, but what do you think of ME3 having multiplayer?
http://www.pcpowerplay.com.au/wp-content/uploads/…
As long as it doesn't detract from the single player experience, I don't care.
Gamers are usually loud, but most of the time we're just all talk. I can't even count all the time I've heard about someone saying they aren't going to buy the new madden because its the same every year, that they aren't going to buy an xbox because they break all the time, or that they won't play their playstation because of updates and yet soon enough I'll hear or see them going back on what they just said. Even the "smartest of guys" say things like this when deep down inside they know they don't care. Microsoft is just as money hungry as any other cooperation, everyone really expects things like this to happen. Which means when microsoft/activision/banks decide to not charge money for something we all about shit our pants.
I still haven't agreed to Sony's last EULA :D
There's no need to get mad. Just do what I do- don't buy it. I have XBL, but I don't use Hulu+, or Netflix, or U-Verse or anything else that is already paid for. Vote with your dollars. I've already casted my vote for "screw you, Microsoft! I'm not going to pay you extra for something that I'm already paying for." Although, I do pay them for being able to play online.
I agree that gamers should rise up and put more pressure on M$ to move some of their services to the silver level, but unless PSN offers the same things for free, I feel that M$ won't feel the pressure because of the lack of competition.
(continued)…
Playing devil's advocate, I think we have to look at this from another perspective: M$ wants as many members as possible to be gold members. If they offer more services for the gold level, then they will get more people to jump. They may think that consumers will pay for online play and they will throw in all of the other ancillary services at "no extra cost" to show consumers that they provide a better value than PSN. So the viewpoint becomes: "I already have an XBL membership and look at all the services I get for it," or "If I join XBL, look at all the services I will get out of it," as opposed to: "I only bought an Xbox to play games offline and watch Netflix and Hulu," or "I only bought an Xbox to watch Netflix and Hulu."
(continued)…
The last group of consumers are probably virtually existent since how many people really buy a gaming console to JUST rent/watch movies and TV shows? That makes the second-to-last group of consumers a small slice of the pie. M$ reasons that if you buy a gaming console, you are buying it primarily as a machine to play games on it. All other services they offer to make you go on XBL to get them is just an incentive to get you to go gold, regardless if you are already paying for the services. What they are selling you is convenience.
In the very basic sense, Xbox is simply a broker for you to get your already-paid-for services through another machine. You don't HAVE to get those services through XBL, but if you do, you have to pay the toll to get your services through Microsoft's pipe… because they own that particular pipeline and for no other reason but convenience.
-M
What pipeline? XBL is p2p and connects to Hulu or Netflix. Their pipe would be zune.
PS3 offers free online play and Netflix access free of charge.
Personally I just use my AppleTV for this stuff. No extra toll needed. I think MS comes out with tiers soon though. $60 is a basic tier that allows gaming and some video playback access. They go up from there.
Whether I got the technical jargon right does not negate the point that Microsoft is serving as a broker and brokers get paid for their services, even if their services are just connecting two separate parties that want to conduct business with each other and add absolutely no value to the transaction.
I am on board with you and think it really sucks and that they should offer it on the silver level, but I am a consumer, so I want everything for either cheap or free. They are a corporation and thus, want to charge for everything and the air you breathe while you're playing your Xbox. The only way that will change is by being forced through competition or enough pressure from their consumers. It is the way of the universe, my friend.
-M
I was unsure if you meant their bandwidth was used. You are spot on though.Sent from my iPhone 4
No I think you got the jargon right. "Pipeline" just refers to the Xbox, not XBL as Smartguy mentioned. Another example of a pipeline is his Apple TV. The difference being there is no premium price for using the Apple TV for those convenience uses. Another difference being that you can't play games on Apple TV.
Have you seen ios5 yet? It allows AirPlay games. Kinda marginal but that could be an extra feature that MS would charge. Haha
I'm sure there's many more differences than that.
I know that the Xbox client for Netflix is crap compared to PS3's. Ps3 loads everything faster and clicks into HD much sooner (at my house at least).
I have no real knowledge as to why and I have no clue how Apple TV compares to either or.
My point ultimately being, is that quality of service is another factor as opposed to quantity and variety of service.
A Swiss Army Knife is handy as hell to have, but for the people who adore and use knives regularly want serious blades. Sure, I could get a hooker who would do absolutely anything, but I'd be willing to pay more if she just did what I wanted really well.
You follow?
That's the funny part. The Xbox 360 Netflix client is worse AND you have to pay to use it.
Wait, what? I think I'd understand you better if you were to have said all that with a Yinzer accent.
-M
Okay…
When I'm cruisin' the bee, I'd rather my jeba be muy bella than feezy.
Oye, bro?
Much better!
Although, the people that are walking by my office are looking at me funny as I try to sound out what you have typed.
-M
You said member. A huh huh huh huh.
Oh, damn, sorry. Thanks for pointing out my very rare grammatical mistake. What I meant to say was: "M$ wants as many penises as possible to be gold penises."
-M
Peni is the plural of penis.
It's an easy mistake because none of us really use penis in the plural very often…
Okay, maybe one of us, but still…
Tom Cruise frequents this site? Awesome.
-M
I didn't necessarily mean you, the penis pluraler knows who they are and I'm not one to blow it.
*cymbal crash
You're right. It would suck if you did.
-M
Guys… We have to give credit where credit is due.
RROD was talking about this years ago when Live first announced Netflix. I remember making the point that he was right and it was "kinda like Walmart or Target charging you for the air your breathing while in their store"… sort of like how Sam's Club and Costco do.
But, it's a very valid point. I think the reason they do it is because they can.
This whole thing is stupid. I don't even own the darned thing, and I still feel sorry for those guys. Why can't we just single-dip in peace?
That's what she said.
Aaah, yeah, I see what you did there. That's another one of those "things" I've always wanted to do that turned out to be less cool than it seemed.
So… I was just at the grocery store. When I pulled up, parked, and got out of the car, some dude was in the parking lot TOTALLY tweaked out on the meth. He was just kinda pacing slowly and every 5-10 seconds he would shout "JASON" at the top of his lungs.
Naturally, I yelled back "SHAUN!!"
You guys are the only people I know that would get the joke.
I must do this to protect the ones I love! -AAAAh! *sobbing* Oh! SHAUN!! *more sobbing*
See the Naruto the Abridged Comedy Fandub Spoof Series Show for the whole quote. Best. Reference. Ever.
It's fun yelling ,"Jaaaaaaasssoooooonnnnnnn!!!" at the mall.
Seriously dude, this guy was no longer on Earth.
He straight up tweaked himself out of reality. It's a total shame.
But on a side note… my son is named Jason. Believe me… I yell "JASON" at the mall, the playground, in front of the house, in the car, and everywhere else QUITE often.
I yell out "Khaaaaaaaan!" randomly when something bad happens to me outside of my house.
Really? With me it's "KAAARMAAAAAA!!!!!"
I never approved of MS double dipping which is why I went so long without an xbl gold account. I loved the ps3 but my limited HDD space and their servers issues were annoying me with certain games so now I use the xbox for most games except when they are going to be multiple discs like LA Noire and ff13.
Is it really double dipping if I was going to buy XBL Gold anyway? I mean I was paying for XBL way before FB, Twitter, ESPN, Hulu+, and Netflix.
Isn't your Xbox 360 primarily a Netflix machine? N8R says that your ratio of Netflix to Mortal Kombat hours is like 3-zillion:1.
Haha! Once I move I will be back to playing more regularly. I'm not big on multiplayer, let alone with immature and ignorant strangers, and lets not forget about the people who play online with no mic. When M$ decided to have Netflix on the Xbox I was pumped because I already had XBL and Netflix. I use XBL for party chatting mostly. $60 for unlimited international calling aint bad. And I can play games and watch various media.
That is my view on XBL. It helps me sleep at night.
^ Scoreboard
How's that for ignorant? Don't get me started on the steroids you supply your FF team with.
Oh Jesus. Now we are going to blame me for a trade that someone OFFERED TO ME.
So you admit to supplying Tom Brady with steroids to better help your FF team?
Wait until Goodell reads this!
TMZ is going to have a field day.
Yes it is.
There have been a few times my Gold ran out and I was content not playing online, but still wanted Netflix.
The ugly truth is that there are 3 consoles in this race and only one of them charges you to use this service you've already paid for on this device.
Basically, let's say you bought a monthly pass to ride the trolley through the city of Boston. I don't know how far apart each stop is, but let's say each stop is a half mile apart. One of these stops (and only 1), is inside a movie theater. Now, you like movies, and you mainly get to them on the weekends when meanwhile, you ride the trolley every night. BUT… it cost $5 to get in.
You already paid the city for your trolley pass, but since you want to catch it here instead of a half mile from here, it's gonna tax you $5, and if you want to catch a show while your there (which some if not most nights you don't and some weeks all the movies suck), that's cool too.
One day, you may stop caring about the movies, and still want to ride the trolley, so you walk to the next stop or just buy a car.
I get that but, I have a computer that connects to my TV when I don't have XBL. We all have the choice to stream movies on our consoles or computers so for me, while that is a valid point, I can go else where.
This is my issue with this topic.
I had XBL and Netflix as standalone products, I just wasn't streaming Netflix videos as often because of the size of the laptop (size no longer matters haha, I'll explain). Now when the good folks @ M$ integrated Nexflix I was like word now I can watch HD vidoes on my new HDTV.
How is that double dipping (in my situation)?
Fast forward a year and some change, now I have a Mac mini and a bad ass phone. If I don't have my gold up to date I can not make international calls ie party chats. I can still play games, talk to you all via G , text or call, text my friends in Holland with WhatsApp, and watch Netflix or Hulu on my cell or my computer that is hooked up to my TV.
I have options and thankfully I am not tied down to M$.
Right. I figured you had other options since I'm talking to you right now over a computer.
Your question doesn't seem to be whether or not you are double dippin'… your question is Do you care?
This is the second half of it.
It's like an amusement park that has general admission and ride all day tickets and if you only buy general admission, they brick your cellphone while you are in there. This too makes no sense.
Your argument is that you were going to get a ride all day anyway, and that's cool, but the question Ray is posing is "Is it right?"
You're focused completely on Netflix. That's not the point. Netflix is one example I mentioned. U-Verse is another. The big picture is Microsoft fudging the value of Xbox Live Gold. Read these two lines again:
"Charging for Netflix, U-Verse, etc. just seems like an artificial way for Microsoft to create 'premium' features for Xbox Live Gold. It’s coattail riding or double dipping instead of actually creating compelling services that justify the cost of Xbox Live Gold."
You asked if it is double dipping and I only focus on what I have, I don't have or really know what U-verse is so I ignored that portion of the topic in order to not sound like a jackass.
How is Netflix not the point but an example at the same time? Really though, what service can M$ create without backlash? I know no one that uses Zune video because of Netflix. M$ music service, screw that I have Last. FM. TV shows on demand? Cable and Hulu have that covered.
I get everything that your saying but M$ can not create anything with out losing its customer base, so they do the next best thing, offer already established services on XBL.
Netflix isn't the point. It's an example of a bigger picture. It's one of several services that Xbox 360 owners have to pay Gold membership prices in order to access, even though the service itself is already paid for.
Why should a service like Netflix be part of Gold? How is offering an established service "the next best thing" when it's free AND better on PlayStation 3?
Think bigger.
"Think bigger" that's what she said!
Why should a service like Netflix be part of Gold?
It shouldn't be, but M$'s model is pay to play. I don't agree, but it is what it is.
How is offering an established service "the next best thing" when it's free AND better on PlayStation 3?
Its not that I am thinking small, I don't have the luxury of owning every console and thus the experiences that come with them.
That just speaks to the point of the value of Xbox Live Gold. A lot of what it offers is free on other systems. Dollar for dollar, PlayStation Plus is a better value.
Hell yeah man, I can see that now.
Just so you know I am not pissed off or offended.
Never thought so!
Cool, you know how to "read" on the innerwbez.
It is funny, I don't agree with it, but I don't mind it either. Most likely it is because at the end of the day it doesn't affect me either way. I'm going to have a Live subscription before any of these other services, so it does not and can not effect me.