The Hyon USA cease and desist controversy is the latest vaping “scandal.” For those of you not familiar with the situation, is involves the Hyon USA Pi2 atomizer by Haus of Zombi and the Ivogo Evil Monk atomizer. When I chatted with company president Fernando Solis at Vape Summit III, he positioned the Pi2 as the industry’s first postless atomizer. The Ivogo Evil Monk is positioned as a non-post RDA. The implication is that Ivogo “borrowed” some of Hyon USA’s designs and incorporated them into the Evil Monk. Ivogo is known primarily for its clone products. Earlier in July, several vape reviewers received Hyon USA cease and desist emails, or more precisely pre-cease-and-desist letters. Some of the reviewers interpreted the legal email as a threat and many of their readers/viewers attacked Hyon USA. Yesterday, I chatted with Fernando at Monster Vape Lounge to get his explanation on the Hyon USA cease and desist controversy.
In the interview below, Fernando explains his side of the Hyon USA cease and desist matter. He said that the letters were meant to start a dialogue with reviewers and were not meant to threaten them. In his mind, these actions are relatively banal and not the big deal that some are making them out to be. While I understand what he was trying to do from business and legal standpoints, I believe that company should have used a lighter touch. I mentioned my experiences reviewing products in the consumer electronics and videogame businesses to Fernando; in some cases legal inquiries were sent to my publisher and in other cases the situation was gently handled by PR reps. Of course those two businesses are much larger and more established than vaping; most popular vape reviewers don’t have publishers to answer to and proper vaping PR is mostly nonexistent.
Going after Internet reviewers is always a tricky thing. Many of them have thousands of fans that are influenced by their works. It’s easy for an established reviewer to get people to think highly of a company and it’s easier for reviewers to generate hate (it’s the Internet, after all). While I respect many vaping reviewers, for the most part they lack the professionalism of reviewers that I’ve worked with in gaming and electronics. Add it all up — relatively young business + unprofessional reviewers + a Hyon USA cease and desist letter — and you have a difficult PR situation. Again, I understand what Hyon USA was trying to do from a business standpoint, but I believe that the company could have handled the situation better.
My take is that there was no malice intended with the Hyon USA cease and desist action, but I definitely understand why people would disagree. I like Hyon USA’s products, I like how the company does business, and I like Fernando. Personally, I think he created more work for himself, but he also created an opportunity. The Hyon USA brand is getting lots of exposure and the company has a chance to turn some of the haters into new customers. See of yourself in the interview below. If you have a chance, please let me know what you think of the Hyon USA cease and desist situation after you’ve watched the video.
I think ol boy was lying to you about working things out with reviewers… They’re a nasty/mean company bro
I’m not sure why the Vape industry & vapers make me feel like I’m in middle school again. I agree with your observation on the reviewers being inexperienced along with the industry itself. I wish we could see a copy of the letter Hyon sent out and to which reviewers got one. With no TV in my home I use to really miss my soaps, thank you vape industry, for filling that void. Vapers, you need a corporate sponsorship to represent, wonder if selfie stick is available?? Oh yeah, don’t forget to ask for some bloody direction. Going in circles backwards, I’m over it now, please move forward. Iam Uprise
Just watched the video, great interview and insight. Let’s hear from the opposing party now. Finally a company or profiteer of the vaping industry with some balls to step out from behind the “I’m in it for your health or F big tobacco and my favorite #vapefamily” curtain. You can’t fool me, your still a business no matter how you slice it. I’m not hating on your livelihood, just keep it real. I see so many companies & all those who look to gain and profit; practice poor, poor, poor business practices. This making up the rules as we go along & what’s cool now shit is only good for the get rich quick knuckleheads #NoRespect. If you want to stay in this game a long time then try aiming for some of these objectives or include these words into your mission statement. Longevity, loyalty, respect, quality, innovation, fair practice… #IMO. Can’t wait to see who’s around 5 years from now. End of rant, putting down the coffee now.
I will give away a FREE, HYON USA CASCA MOD+PUGIO RDA “The Industry’s First Adjustable Bottom AirFlow Intake System” + Pi2 “The World’s First Flat Deck Postless RDA”+ HYON USA Snap Back & HYON USA T-SHIRT including shipping (A $575.00 value) to the FIRST PERSON that can provide;
****A Vape Reviewer that was served a PRE-Cease & Desist notice from HYON USA, Who contacted HYON USA to discuss the matter and wasn’t able to resolve or quash the PRE-C&D notice***
LETS MAKE THIS FUN!!!
Fernando Solis
Hyon USA
Very, very cool. Let’s do this!
Nick Beardie Beanie vape reviews Matthews
Is this a @RPadTV exclusive giveaway?
@Fernando Solis I just sent you a letter thru your facebook page, so it prob went to the other folder. I believe you are right in this matter and see this as a revolutionary step in the right direction to help protect those who have there work ripped off and are victims of clones. I am now a fan and you have my respect. As a owner of 2 degrees related to business and management, a previous business owner, and owner of leather brown belt to hold up my pants, Bravo to you. Stay true to yourself and good luck and future success. Good job as always Raymond. Monster Vape Lounge? What happened to Vapestars? Don’t tell me I can’t handle any more drama, LOL
Excuse me RPad TV? “Unprofessional reviewers” you stated in your article… and you call me a hater? Did you not see the email from Hyon where it said i should suck my mothers tit? Ok, he apologised for it AFTER he found out i was actually living with my mother who is DISABLED. How f****** dare you rpad tv decide to brush folks like me, richard ng and other people who had emails from solis as “haters”. Your article is obviously bought and payed for by Hyon along with your morals and ethics…
I didn’t call you anything or refer to you in any way. Those inferences are all on you. Your accusations are pretty amusing though.
LOL, he lied to you for 15 mins. why dont you ask Eden mods about who really came up with the postless deck. how about asking Fernando about his company trying to trademark another companies name, Ivogo, or trying to trademark the “Evil Monk” name? hyon, or more correctly Fernando, has done more back peddling over the last few weeks they could have won the Tour De France. shady, shady shit is all they have done. they own NO patents nor trademarks. you can look that up for yourselves and see that they tried to trademark Ivogo and Evil Monk AFTER Ivogo introduced the atty. it takes over a year to get a trademark. lets not forget Ivogo has been around a LOT longer than hyon. after all this, i know i wouldnt spend my hard earned money with a company like hyon and there are a LOT of vapers that feel the same way.
It’s actually irrelevant how truthful or not Fernando was. I respect viewers and readers enough to let them make up their own minds. I just gave Hyon USA a chance to get their story out there. You can do with the information what you will.
As for the Evil Monk TM, I actually have a pretty good understanding of what the company is trying to do. I don’t necessarily agree with it, but it’s not as simple as some people are making it out to be. I believe it’s part of a bigger legal skirmish.
All reviewers that contacted were able to quash the pre c&d
Does he not relise that if he carry’s on with this whole “we thought of it first” crap what he is going to do to the vaping world…. ok he says they invented the postless deck, but he didnt invent rda’s or 510’s or drip tips etc, if he pushes this to the limit NOONE will be aloud to make anything , and that includes HIM, what a prick
Answer, Vic mulligan, “vaping with vic” YouTube reviewer.
I’m not even going to watch that stupid video. Hyon is the worst company that the vaping industry has ever seen. That stupid postless rda isn’t even very good, but I’m sure that after the Chinese clone the shit out of it, and make their own little tweaks, it will be much better. I can’t wait for that to happen, and there will nothing Hyon can do about it.
hmm interesting, please may i make a few points:
Quote RPAD:
I didn’t call you anything or refer to you in any way. Those inferences are all on you. Your accusations are pretty amusing though.
Well you did as he is a reviewer who received a pre C&D, so you called him unprofessional.
Quote RPAD:
pre-cease-and-desist letters. Some of the reviewers interpreted the legal email as a threat
If you had done your research and actually read the letters sent to reviewers, you would see it was nothing less than a threat, it threatened more action if they did not immediately remove the reviews. That is not a company trying to open a dialogue it is a company trying to threaten reviewers.
Quote RPAD:
It’s actually irrelevant how truthful or not Fernando was. I respect viewers and readers enough to let them make up their own minds. I just gave Hyon USA a chance to get their story out there. You can do with the information what you will.
I know you are not a professional journalist, but to do what you stated above would have been to present the interview without your own personal opinions, you stated you liked them and the way they did business, thus trying to use your own followers to sway opinion.
The way i read it, Whilst not probably paid this is a very pro article written by somebody who is obviously friendly with the company.
Those are all fair points and I appreciate the thought you put into them. This was a nice post to read after sifting through insults and deleting comments that were too vulgar and/or homophobic to allow.
As for not being a professional journalist, I’m not really sure what you’re talking about. I’ve done plenty of news reporting and reviewing for magazines, websites, and television channels that reach millions. RPadTV is a blog. I posted an interview and gave my take on the situation. Journalists of any kind put information into context. Saying that I like Hyon and how the company does business is simply putting another take out there. It’s certainly more honest than someone only posting part of an email exchange in order look good and make Hyon look bad.
And you’re correct that the article isn’t paid. I’ve never accepted to money for coverage on my site. As for being friendly with the company, this was my second time dealing with Hyon. If that constitutes being friendly with a company, there are dozens and dozens of vaping companies that I’m friendly with.
congradulation to the pres. of hyon usa found your tit in the wringer over all this and bought yourself an interview and a 15 minute ad trying to safe face too little too late
That guy makes me laugh he says ivogo rip off he idea he rip off the idea of postless design from the rose rda so bottom line this guy is a idiot
This is ridiculous! I think we can all agree that straight 1:1 clones are wrong, however, the Ivogo Evil Monk was NOT a 1:1 clone, or anything close to it! Really the only similarity was a postless design, however, Eden Mods did this beforehand so Hyon is actually copying them!
Moreover, where does Fernando think this should stop? If you accuse someone of stealing a design such as the posts (which he himself has stolen), what about 3 post drippers, 4 post drippers, 2 post drippers? Based on the logic presented here, there should be 3 or 4 companies in the entire vaping world allowed to produce a dripper!
Airflow is also talked about, so Kennedy RDAs, Freakshows, and all the plethora of bottom air feed are all copies? Hell no, otherwise all side air flow would be copies meaning the 3 or 4 companies mentioned in the previous paragraph would actually boil down to 1!!!
Taking it to another industry, what would have happened if the first car wasn’t able to be progressed? It has 4 wheels, 4 doors, and encased in metal, based on what’s been said in this interview GM should not be allowed to copy Ford cars!
This is a laughable situation to be in it really is, and the childish nature that Fernando and Hyon has approached this with is nothing short of horrific.
Come on Hyon, admit you made a horrific mistake, a knee-jerk reaction that was neither based on foresight or fact, the way this has played out, Hyon USA is not going to be a player in the vaping world, and you will not ‘continue to do so for years’ as quoted, because the vaping community will certainly NOT be purchasing your products. The only future for this company is to apologise greater than any company in this industry has had to do so far.
There are some thoughtful points in here, but also some questionable conclusions. As vaping companies get bigger and more professional, the patent wars will probably get uglier. It will be interesting to see.
As for Hyon’s approach being horrific, that’s a bit much. While I certainly believe that the company should have handled things differently, the company had a strategy as far as trademark self policing. I understand what Hyon wanted to do, but I do think it went about it the wrong way.
As for the company not being a player in the vaping world, I remember when people were yelling and screaming about AmeraVape last year. The two companies that sprung from AmeraVape are still around and doing reasonably well. Other than the fact that you don’t like them, what makes you see Hyon won’t be a player in the vaping world?
Lets just chill out, None of this he said she said bullcrap, at the end of the day it all comes down to name calling and empty threats. It’ll all be forgotten in a week or two
Convicted Vapes, you lied to Jeff and you lied to the group. You Patented the ivogo name and are a deceptive piece of shit. You wrote emails taunting Vaping with Vic and have lied and lied to the vaping community at large. I have the emails you sent.
OK Convicted Vapes and Vaping with Vic. You are trying to fuck IVOGO by patenting the IVOGO name too. Where is my setup?
This bloke is worse than the Kardashians.
What’s he up to ? Is he working for the North Korean government ?
All he’s achieved so far is to associate the revered Hyon family name (recently executed by the communist regime) with a Californian nutjob.
Convicted Vapes Fernando. Reply here for a PO Box to send me my booty.
What a load of rubbish you are just a mouth piece for Hyun who are just lieing scumbags they never invented the postless design and now trying to tradmark evil monk and ivogo and Fernando is a scumbag who should not be allowed to be in the vape community. He has threatended as well as insulted peoples families as well as threated people with violence
I’d love to see a link to the full conversations. Are you going to post them?
Way to buy yourself an interview you deceptive tool. I mean why should you stop the lies now. You’re already in too deep. You really have no clue the shit storm you have unleashed.
Where’s Michael Jackson and some popcorn when you need them?
Pixelvape is spot on. In know time this will be in the same box under the bed as the whole Ameravape thing.
Breathe… you’ll be okay.
This guy is full of it and a bully. He lied and made himself (his company) look like a victim when it was the complete opposite. He thought he could scare these reviewers and it didn’t work. Their pie squared RDA and the Evil Monk RDA have NOTHING in common except the postless design. This is like a company trying to patent the 510 connection or top cap. “Their RDA has a top cap and as you can see, our design from a year ago that still isn’t out on the market yet also has a top cap…” GTFO here! Hyon is just angry that Evil Monk came out with theirs first and ruined their ploy of holding out of a design to spike up intrigue and the price. This dude dug his own grave and if he were smart he would just drop it and try to act like this whole ordeal never happened. The “nasty” things that have been said are deserved. Learn from it and move on.
Thats right Fernando Patent Troll SoLICE I capped that because you are a parasite. Dont address anyone and when you do delete your comments or theres. You cant delete them here also i have a plethora of screens that will be going up in a review i am doing of how you carried on like a prepubesant girl of facebook. How you threatened thr reviewers for our actions, they arent my parrents you little shit. You are a selfish little man child who needs to grow up and learn to run a business. You attacked reviewers who are protected under the 1st ammendment and the fair use act. I mean seriously didnt you learn nothing from Amerivape? Nothing at all? You claim a 500+ dollar set up give away, but i also remember some other things you promised that you never delivered on. Also what the hell makes it worth more than the Scottua setup? Is it made from silver? No, it isnt hand lathed from a solid copper block? Oh so its all hype, intellectilual property theft and bullying. Guess them top teir lawyers helping you commit patent fraud must be real expensive. This isnt going to go away, no one is going to drop this. You can delete all the posts and comments you want, you can block all the Facebook profiles you want and you can threaten us all you want but WE CAN JUST MAKE MORE, AND YOU ARENT INTIMIDATING ANYONE.
And i see you are still claiming to own the trademarks for products that are still pending. You are the true definition of stupidity.
I’ll just leave this here,
Eden mods should be suing you for ripping off thier design, you ripped them off.
What an idiot..!
With all do respect for the opinions of everyone involved, the real issue I see is much larger than this who did it first crap. The vaping industry is under such incredible scrutiny and facing constant attack. Actively trying to fuck over other companies in this industry simply weakens us as a whole and any weakness just provides greater opportunity for assault on our industry and the lively and diverse community surrounding it. Even if hyon were the innovators behind the post less rda, which from all evidence I’ve seen they werent, this kind of sleazy business practice will never be supported by the community. In addition to that I have no respect whatsoever for people who drop their opinions in an extremely public manner then try and back pedal their way to safety. I would like to also state that Covicted Vapes has received way to much heat from this nonsense and nothing has been resolved. So please box up that setup you’ve been offering and kindly address the package to your own calloused asshole because I will never support a company like that by carrying their logo around like a poster boy for this disease known as hyon usa.
I would also like to state that if Hyon can present me with genuine evidence to support their claims as well as their blatant disrespect for the community that keeps them I’m business I will send them a beautiful Scottua dripper setup because I am perusing the trademark for that name because I made all copper mods first and since hyon had set such a wonderful example for up and coming mod and rda designers I would like to follow their footsteps right into the hard ground on which they’ll be sleeping when their company loses what littlw respect anyone still has for them.
Hey share this comment with Hyon USA, maybe if you sold your RDAs at a competitive price to the clones, more people would buy the authentics, I mean the Pi2 is $100 more than the Evil Monk, come on.
Your credibility has gone to below zero as a reslut of the “interview” you did with Fernando Solis. If you were not actually bought, and ever wish to establish yourself as anything other than a shill, why don’t you interview Vic from Vaping with Vic? The same reviewer Solis told to go and suck on the tit of his disabled mother? Hyon does NOT own the trademark and patent in question, and in fact the patent he has applied for is “borrowed” and I use this term improperly, stolen would be more accurate, from a UK company that DID produce the first postless design.
BTW, did Hyon compensate you with cash, or product? I hope for your sake you cashed the cheque or got the merch in hand priour to your Hyon propaganda vid, because if you didn’t, you have destroyed your reputation and established yourself as the Official Hyon Whore Appoligist, Pro Bono.
This was probably my favorite of the trolling comments. You ask me to do something and insult me. That’s usually not how it works. Still, I shall address your points.
— If Vic wants to come to Los Angeles, I’d be happy to interview him. He hasn’t expressed any interest in doing so and it’s not worth my time/money to fly to Europe just to film him cursing.
— Have you read the entire email exchange between Vic and Fernando? Or just the select bits that were posted? I think they both made mistakes.
— I’m well aware of the trademark Hyon wrote reviewers about. What the company is trying to do is larger than what you’re thinking about. I don’t necessarily agree with it, but I understand. As for the patent, that’s pending. Let’s see if it’s approved, otherwise there’s nothing to discuss.
— I was not paid by Hyon and your accusations are pretty laughable. Over the years, I’ve been accused of being paid off by Apple, Sony, Microsoft, etc. It’s always the same accusations from anonymous people.
— While I’m sad that an anonymous person that’s afraid to use his/her real name thinks my “credibility has gone to below zero” and that I have destroyed my reputation, I’ll just have to live with it. I’m secure with what I’ve accomplished and anonymous trolls with idiotic accusations don’t bother me. Thanks for the entertainment though.
Lets make a fake giveaway, im sure everyone will get excited and forget everything.
So, a month has passed…Youtube has not taken my video down, the legal threats from Hyon never came to fruition and rpad.tv has been doing more “interviews” with hyon recently about the Pi2…has anyone noticed that rpad has not bothered to even speak to any of the reviewers who got threatening emails from Hyon? Rpad “supporting” vapers… I DONT THINK SO.
You should get some facts straight before you try to insult me. I haven’t done “more” interviews with Hyon. I’ve interviewed Fernando twice — the first time was this past Spring at Vape Summit and the most recent one was last month. There wasn’t a recent interview about the Pi2 and I don’t know how you came to that conclusion. It’s not hard to check the dates on articles.
The reason why I haven’t followed up on the story is partially because it’s not that interesting. More importantly, the day after I interviewed Fernando in July I left for the Philippines because my father was sick. He died while I was flying there. I was out of the country for several weeks and thinking about vape reviewers wasn’t on my mind at all.
Just more free advertising for Hyon USA !!
Not really. If anything, all the people lashing out against Hyon have created more hype about its products. I find that more than funny. All these people claiming that they hate Hyon and will never buy a Hyon product have made the Pi2 more popular than it would have been without the “controversy.”
He cries about modders losing money because of stolen ideas. The way I see it China is coming out with decent original shit lately. Not only do we not need Fernando to make new atomizers, I hope him and any children he has STARVES for clearly not caring about vaping, saving lives, and contributes NOTHING of use to the cause.
Hopefully Fernando is so financially hurt by all the theft of his ideas that him and his family go into poverty and starve. Vaping is about saving lives, not making a quick dollar.
oh really? where is all this popularity? i am a member of several rather large facebook groups and no one is posting about their new pi2 or anything from hyon. on the flip side there are a LOT of people posting about their evil monks. the ONLY post i have seen about the pi2 in quite a while is someone that won one at a comp and he even said there was no way he would have bought one.
Yes, really. I know several vape shop owners that have sold out of Pi2 atomizers within 24 hours of restocking. A few of them have mentioned that they only heard of the atomizer because of reviewer situation and people complaining. There was actually a thread on Reddit, mostly blasting Hyon, but with a few people asking where they could get one. Obviously that Reddit thread brought the Pi2 to their attention.
Your dumb, lets see all of these other companies and brands put up their patents and trademarks. Evil Monk people, there china they don’t patent shit they steal from America. You know they aint got paperwork. Until you trademark it or patent it anyone can file for ownership and in this country you have advantage in courts if your is pending. Tell evil monk and rose atty people to show us their claims/patents. that will end all discussion. They don’t have any cause their idiots like you. Do business right and follow the laws and we wont have this issue, which is what Hyon is trying to state. If every manufacture did the right thing and patented their product you wouldn’t see one clone in this country. Thats what they mean when they say that this industry is like the Wild West. No one is following the laws and safe business practices, and now our industry is over run with cheap clones with American vapers willing to give their money to china instead of Americans. Dickweed.
I don’t know why everyone is getting so angry on both sides. It seems hyon has no case. I recently got an rdna clone because everyone says it’s better than the original in quality and only a fraction of the price. Vaporshark lowered their price but is still almost 3 times the price of the clone. If American companies want to compete with China they need to step up their game. I buy Canadian /American raw dog food and would never buy the Chinese version because the quality control is better even though it’s cheaper. In the end, us companies need to have products that the Chinese couldn’t afford to sell at that price because of quality. Hyon seems to think, as a lot of us companies do, that they can sell cheap products at 5 times the price that the Chinese can produce with the exact same quality or worse. Vaporshark has more of a leg to stand on and I even disagree with them.