Coffee Talk #379: Mixed Race Spider-Man and You

56 thoughts on “Coffee Talk #379: Mixed Race Spider-Man and You”

1. Awesome, we need more color everywhere!!!

   1. Growing up in New York, I always wondered why 99 percent of Marvel heroes in Manhattan were white. That's certainly not the NYC I experienced. Hell, I was always amused by the sitcom Friends. It took them like six seasons before a non-white person had a recurring role. Unless you're actively trying, it's tough to not have a non-white acquaintance in Manhattan.

      1. FOR REAL!!!!

         Most of the people I encountered in Manhattan had an accent of some sort. Even more oddly, I went into one gyro shop there that was run by Greek immigrants and they knew that I was from Pittsburgh because of MY accent (which at that point I was unaware that I even had an accent).

         Your point is valid. It's kind of like going into a Starbucks with a craving for coffee and all you can get is chai. Ridiculous.

         Maybe Stan Lee and Jack Kirby had a secret agenda to make you believe that all the white people you met were superheroes underneath their secret identity.

2. This political climate makes my stomach churn from all the idiocy.

   In 2008 during Obama's election is when I foresaw people reacting stupidly over things like this. I picked up a tabloid my mother in law was reading that had a picture with Obama and some Kenyan political person where Obama was wearing traditional Kenyan garb. The headline read "Here's the proof that Obama is a muslim terrorist".

   Now… first off, the notion is entirely silly. But more importantly… I realized that I'm in a special position to be able to see the crap at face value and MANY Americans are not. I realized then that no matter if Obama got elected or not, some assholes were going to believe that was true. And now because somebody started a smear campaign about a politician (which has happened since the dawn of politics) that went too far… people are being more outwardly racist.

   They can't even give Spider-Man a break.

3. I grew up with a white spiderman and black spawn. I'd consider the characters uninteresting if that were changed.

   1. No, you grew up with a white Peter Parker and a black Al Simmons. Miles Morales is an entirely different character than Peter Parker.

      1. I grew up with white spiderman and a black spawn. Because some other likeness and name dons the costume/title it doesn't change my perception of the character. I read spiderman for spiderman. Not Peter Parker getting the girl.

         I'd feel the same if Jason Bourne became Asian even though his real name is David Webb.

         I'm not chiming in with PC here. Just telling you how I identify the characters.

      2. Do you have an issue with Spider-Man 2099? He's mixed race too.

      3. Uninteresting and having an "issue" aren't the same thing I believe. If you are trying to paint me as a bigot you are far off. My niece is creole.

         I first saw iron man as a black guy, wanna guess how I feel about white Tony stark?

      4. Again, Jim Rhodes and Tony Stark are two different characters. At this point, Rhodes has spent more time as War Machine than Iron Man. I don't see why you should have any problem with "white Tony Stark".

         Furthermore, this particular case is completely different. Peter Parker is dead in UMU. Are you saying that he can only be replaced by another white person? What about sex? Would it be an issue for you if his UMU female clone replaced him?

         I'm not accusing you of being a bigot. I just think you're limiting yourself by automatically rejecting something that's different than what you originally knew.

      5. Because it's not how I learned about the character?

         No. If he's dead then stay dead. Black, female, crippled, whatever. When the story is over, it should end. Kinda like how Anne Rice should never have gone beyond Queen of the Damned in the vampire chronicles.

         Why is it so narrow? I don't care for a new spiderman/hero. Why is it construed as not accepting new things? Perhaps I'm guilty of that to an extent. Idk. I think I prefer fresh ideas. I wasn't keen on Jeff Bridges playing a John Wayne character in True Grit. I also thought John Wayne was a shitty Ghengis Khan in The Conqueror.

      6. UMU Peter Parker is dead for the moment. Why should the Spider-Man character stay dead? Is it unreasonable to think that he inspired another superhero and he's wearing the costume to pay tribute? Why wouldn't someone else use the costume and colors to fight crime more effectively? Peter Parker's story is over for now, but that doesn't mean that Spider-Man's is over. Again, I think you're limiting yourself.

         How do you feel about The Dread Pirate Roberts?

      7. Because being bitten by the spider and all of the events that transpired created Peter Parker's alter ego so to speak, aka Spiderman. Please forgive me if I feel that it takes more than spandex to make a superhero :) it does make them more agile and tactical immediately though.

         I don't think I'm limiting myself. I don't think it's too much to ask for Morales to have his own identity. Inspiring is one thing, but imitation is another.

         Dread Pirate Roberts? Sounds familiar.

      8. Any problems with Bucky as Captain America?

      9. Any problems with Bucky as Captain America?

      10. Couldn't we have this same argument if we were talking about MGS2?

      11. Spiderman and any other super hero is usually defined by the superpowers and the costume, not by the person that actually has the power. I think Ray mentioned, but you can say Peter Parker is supposed to be white, but you can't say Spiderman is supposed to be white because there are so many different iterations of Spiderman. It's like saying a Yankee can't be black because all your life, you've grown up with the NY Yankees being all white males.

      12. Aren't spiderman and peter Parker the same guy? Or should I say person. Or would the name change to spiderperson? Lol. I think your argument works for Venom, since the suit makes him.

      13. Peter Parker, Miguel O'Hara, and now Miles Morales are Spider-Man. Several people have been The Flash, Blue Beetle, Green Lantern, etc.

      14. The fact that so many people can be the same superhero really diminishes the importance of backstory for the characters. Origin seems absolutely useless.

      15. I disagree. Superheroes are often symbols. When Bruce Wayne was dead, of course someone else was Batman. The symbol was necessary for the city. Another teenager being Spider-Man absolutely makes sense, especially in the UMU. The mantle makes it easier for Morales to fight crime and the role makes sense for a teenager.

   2. Not only is Ray correct, but in addition:

      There were several Spawn's throughout time that had multiple races and creeds. Al Simmons was just one person that agreed to serve Malebolgia. Simmons was just the first one we saw in the comic, but it was eluded to in issue #1 with that clock that kept ticking down that nobody knew what it meant.

      Now… your stance however is not ignorant or even arrogant. It's understandable. People prefer what they already know and change has to be welcomed in a different way than a new experience. This is true with everybody.

      Which is why I welcome this change. The future needs more color in the media especially depicted as heroes so our grandchildren hopefully won't repeat mistakes of the past for "traditional" reasons. You're cool… you get it, you don't need the change… but it's not for you.

      1. Thanks. Were there other Spawn comics written where the hellspawn referred to himself as Spawn? I never finished that series. Got too strange.

      2. It did get strange.

         I think Jim Downing took over for Simmons. Other than that, I'm not sure. I just saw them all as Spawn but just all over the clock and map.

         However, that first series did have the best writing and art out any of them in my opinion.

4. Everyone knows that all real super heroes HAVE to be white!

   1. Inki, I can't wait for a major Korean-American superhero. You'll have to poster your home with him/her. Right now the closest thing you have is Hwoarang from Tekken. :P

5. I mean really, who cares. The fact we even need to either reject or applaud something based on something as pointless as "race" is stupid. It shows how far we still have to go as society that this matters in either direction.

   And by the way, the word "race" doesn't even really apply. It was misused by European conquers throughout time to make anyone not white seem "different" enough to justify subjugating. The fact that every culture now accepts the word "race" to describe themselves when we're all Homo Sapiens is absurd in it's own right.

   1. The term race has been used a certain way for 800 years. I don't think it's absurd anymore. Race and ethnicity are different things.

      1. Using it the way we do continues to put up false barriers between people. As a society, we'll never gain true acceptance of each other if we keep seeing each other as "different by definition."

      2. So what do you suggest? Differences in culture, ethnicity, and the broader term race are real. You think people will ignore them? How do you deal with your state's ethnic issues?

6. Differences in culture are real, no denying that. But the fact we use a false word to describe our differences makes us seem more alien then we actually are. Cultures are, at their core, a choice, made either by the person, who by whomever raises them. That's why you can have Asian people from Kentucky who speak in southern accents.

   My state's problems stem from problems in Mexico. Unless something is done about the corruption and the Cartels, nothing we do on this side of the border will ever fix the influx of Mexicans crossing the border. The only thing we can do on this side is stop electing racist sheriffs in Mericopa and Pinal Counties who go after the victims and the poor people just trying to survive, rather then going after the human smugglers who bring people across the border.

   1. How is it a false word after 800 years of usage? Languages evolve. Meanings change.

      1. We had slavery on these shores for over 300 years. Time didn't make that right either. We came to a realization as a society (violently – not that I'm suggesting that this time around) that we were better than that. Either we evolve to be better than we are, or we stagnate and nothing changes.

      2. How is the evolution of a word even remotely close to a practice like slavery? Absolutely horrible example.

      3. The word has evolved in a way that makes prejudice acceptable. That's pretty horrible.

      4. There are so many cases in 2011 where it's not used in a prejudicial way. I think you need to update your definition.

      5. There are so many cases when in 2011 when people don't realize it's being used in a prejudicial way because we accept it. We even take pride in our roles as the "other," (African American, Hispanic American, Asian American, etc,) when we're actually not all that different after all. It's the same with gender or sexual preference. We separate ourselves into these groups and scream that we all want equality for "everyone just like us" instead of fighting for equality for all. That's the problem. And if you ever want true equality, people need to stop seeing each other as different by definition. So no, I don't think I need to update my definition. I think people need to stop using that word, and a whole lot of other ones that separate us falsely if we ever want to get past the things that divide us. Because if we ever got all the groups being discriminated against in this country to work together, the power structure would have a hard time holding them back.

      6. Yeah, too bad I'm not talking about any of those cases. Again, I don't think you understand how the term is evolved. At the very least, equating its use with slavery makes no sense at all.

      7. And one of these days you're going to accept that people can have a different opinion without claiming that they have a lack of understanding or are thinking too narrow. But I digress….

      8. I accept that all the time. In this case you're absolutely wrong. Deflecting this issue shows that you can't back it up. Go ahead and try to explain how the term race is akin to slavery. You can't do that in a sane way.

      9. I made a point about the length of time that something is accepted having nothing to do with "right." Any other correlation you made in your own mind.

      10. Slavery is not accepted in 2011 because it's almost universally viewed as wrong today. The term race has not evolved that way. It can be used in a harmful way. It can be used in completely non-offensive ways.

          The "point" you made is invalid.

      11. Really Ray, it seems like very point you disagree with is invalid. I don't know why I waste my time.

      12. That's not even remotely true. I disagree with readers all the time. Certainly I'm not always right and I've learned from readers in numerous cases. I've had fun disagreements with smartguy and N8R in the past, but to be completely honest, they've made much better arguments. In this particular instance, I've yet to hear you back up your argument in a cogent way. If you feel that's a waste of time, that's fine.

      13. I still think the Beatles suck.

      14. You suck, they were a voice of a generation. Jk I got that from the Kanye West South Park Episode.

   2. I'm sorry but I LOVE these kinds of threads, lmfao, the language is so strong, it's like I can feel your personalities emitting from my screen.

7. I stopped reading and following comics a long time ago, but I enjoy reading about all the controversy when they change something :)

   In my opinion though, I think these comic book dudes just change things for publicity, not some PC reason. If they did all this stuff and didn't make a press release about it I don't think 99% of the non-comic book reading world would give 2 shits.

   I'd be interested in seeing the sales figures before and after changes like this though, sadly I think they will go down, probably more do to him being possibly gay (read that somewhere else) then being non-white.

   1. I would agree that Marvel is enjoying the press, but I think Brian Michael Bendis is writing it simply because that's what he wanted to write. He did a fantastic job modernizing Spider-Man with the Ultimate book. I didn't see a need for the series, but after I start reading it, I loved all the modern twists.

8. More of the on again, off again story line. He's dead! Now he's not! He's dead again thing.

   Question…would you be calling people hypocrites if Blade became let's say…a 6'5" Swedish guy and they balked? I'm just trying to make sure the door swings both ways here since you are trying to trip me up here.

   For the record…I never thought Superman should die…but he never should have came back to life.

   This conversation had me thinking on my commute home would if I would be tolerant if say Batman had a biker beard while in cape and cowl? I think i'd dislike that as well.

   I'd be accepting of Wonder Woman as a redhead though…but I like redheads. This is all reminiscent of the discussion we had about DareDevil.

   1. I'm not trying to trip you up. I just don't understand your position.

      I wouldn't have a problem with anyone of any race or sex taking up Blade's name or any other codename. Different people have added to various codenames over the years. I've enjoyed Jay Garrick, Barry Allen, and Wally West as The Flash, for example.

      Aremis was Wonder Woman for a while. She had red hair.

      And yes, I thought about Daredevil too. I enjoyed MCD as Kingpin. Do you have any thoughts on Laurence Fishburne being Perry White?

      1. No. I like Laurence Fishburne. He's a little too stiff in his characters but we'll see. He's not the main protagonist or antagonist so whatever.

         I thought MCD was the best part of DareDevil.

9. I have no issue with this, maybe because i'm used to superheroes being dead and others picking up the mantle to keep their presence in the mind of evil do'ers. You know what would be a cool storyline but in a funny way IMO is if the main villain knows the heroes real life identity. They should show theyre coping with their nemesis being dead and how they new hero doesnt live up to their expectations.
   @rpad
   Do u know if marvel has announced when the TPB for the death of spiderman is coming out? Id like to pick it up.

10. I have no issue with this, maybe because i'm used to superheroes being dead and others picking up the mantle to keep their presence in the mind of evil do'ers. You know what would be a cool storyline but in a funny way IMO is if the main villain knows the heroes real life identity. They should show theyre coping with their nemesis being dead and how they new hero doesnt live up to their expectations.
    @rpad
    Do u know if marvel has announced when the TPB for the death of spiderman is coming out? Id like to pick it up.

11. The hardcover won't be out until November.

    1. Thank you! Just in time for my friends bday! Ive made it a habit of buying tpbs of comics to my friends now since they want to pick on me for reading comics. Some of them actually have read them and enjoyed them.

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