Welcome to Coffee Talk! Let’s start off the day by discussing whatever is on your (nerd chic) mind. Every morning I’ll kick off a discussion and I’m counting on you to participate in it. If you’re not feelin’ my topic, feel free to start a chat with your fellow readers and see where it takes you. Whether you’re talking about videogames, your favorite NBA playoff performance thus far, tea, or white phones, Coffee Talk is the place to do it.
As I was sipping coffee with one of my industry friends, I was surprised by his lengthy and passionate rant on PSP Minis. He loves them. He thinks they’re underrated. He believes there are plenty of cheap gaming treasures to be had with PSP Minis. And he was sad that most gamers don’t seem to care.
To be fair, he loves small indie games. He plays more PSP Minis, Nintendo WiiWare titles, and Xbox Live Indie Games than anyone I know. He made a great point though — why are most gamers ignorant of these games? I’m certainly guilty of not paying as much attention as I should. Part of it is that these games don’t get any marketing money or coverage from the press. There’s also a lot of crap buried with the treasures. It’s hard to find the good games when you don’t hear about them and have to sift through a lot of garbage to find them.
Do you guys and gals care about the little guys like PSP Minis and Nintendo WiiWare? If so, kindly share your recommendations. If not, why don’t you care about them?
Indie games don't get me achievements that's why I don't buy them. I love to play the games though.
Don't forget to report your battery life on the tip I gave you.
I didn't forget I am keeping a very close eye on it. Actually at this point of the day it would be dead by now or close to it and I think the battery is at 40% with my normal use. Defiantly a battery saver! I passed that on to my friend/co worker Ray (that's his name) and he has noticed a major difference too.
I didn't forget I am keeping a very close eye on it.
Not really. iOS beats the 3 consoles in this regard. Price and cost of the devices (subsidized mainly) make them more attractive on iOS.
Tea – it is the only way I will drink anything with milk. I normally hate milk, but I don't mind it in a hot cup of tea.
NBA – CP3 in Game 1 and Game 4. Also every other time he has schooled the Lakers starters :)
Agree on iOS. Watching Paul is such a pleasure. For me, he'd he's more entertaining than Rose.
I agree. Rose is a scoring machine who sometimes needs a PG instead of that being his job.
TOTALLY different players
Paul is more of a facilitator, which is what a point guard is supposed to be. Rose is really more of a shooting guard than a pure point guy. He is the best scoring point guard ive ever seen….with the exception of Magic, and i am too young to remember PIstol Pete…
To me, Rose is Allen Iverson without the dick attitude.
rose doesnt put up 40 shots EVERY game though
hehe
40 shots and only hit 15 of them.
are indie games on iOS free or something and I didn't know about it? If we are talking about apps/games published on iOS compared to XBL Indie Games (all I can compare to since I haven't ever thought about making WiiWare purchases or browsed their catalogs) then I would agree there is more opportunity to publish there. But in terms of price they aren't that different, and if I were seriously going to buy an indie game that would be a factor. I'm not really into indie games though, but I don't see how "Price and cost of the devices (subsidized mainly) make them more attractive on iOS." is a true statement when both my iPod touch and Xbox 360 are $300 systems and the games cost about the same amount. iOS has more opportunity for indie publishers. But to say it is better because of price of the system (especially if you examine the iPad which has a starting price higher than the most expensive tricked out xbox 360 model and also consider that the Wii is only $200, although again I'm not as familiar with that system so I do not know the WiiWare prices for comparison)—not a chance.
@bsu
Try and buy $1 worth of MSpoints. You can't. For example, The Impossible Game is on 360 and iOS. You can spend $1 in one market but have to spend at least $5 (I think) on Live. This is a good game btw.
You can get an iPhone 3GS for $100 or iphone4 for $200. An arcade sku for the same price can't do indie games. You can also run iOS games on multiple platforms.
WiiWare sucks because it is locked into the hardware. I'd never purchase any digi content from Nintendo.
How can you ignore the calling and data plan that comes with buying an iPhone for only $100 (and the size I would personally get is definitely not $100)? Not everyone has A) a smart phone which has apps available. B) the ability to get an iPhone. C) the desire to get an iPhone.
As far as WiiWare is concerned I will only be getting one downloaded game from Nintendo at any point, but that is only because it is Pokemon related and has nothing to do with indie games.
On xbox you do have to purchase MS points, and I agree it is very frustrating when I have an uneven amount of points leftover, but I don't think that's enough of a reason to say that iOS is better than xbox where price in concerned. I'm going to use my points eventually on another game if I buy $5 worth, or maybe that will encourage me to buy several indie games and get a better idea of what is out there. I'm ok with paying $5 and being able to have it on my xbox even if there is a dollar or two leftover to use for later.
Between Verizon and ATT you can get an iPhone. For the costs of using modern communications you also have the ability to play games.
The argument of not everyone having smartphones is becoming antiquated very fast. That market is exploding faster than the dumb phone market ever did.
If you do not want an iPhone:
A) get another iOS device, it will cost more upfront
B) you don't have access to the best indie store around. Steam can argue this perhaps.
C) use android market or play flash games
If you made indie titles you would put your eggs in the 360 basket where an impulse buy is more difficult on the consumer due to points and zero marketing? Or the fastest growing consumer electronics industry in the world outside of medicine?
From personal experience I have purchased considerably more games for iOS in the last 3 years than my DS and PS3 combined.
I'm not debating anything about distribution though, you missed the part where I stated that in my original post then. I don't think that the iOS has a better pricing option for indie games than something like XBL indie games.
I don't think you can cite iOS as the superior platform here for indie games. By doing so you make an assumption that everyone wants to have an iPhone or an iOS device. Either option is expensive to me due to the nature of the price of an iPad or iPod touch and I (along with many other people) don't want an iPhone (I used to but quickly changed my mind about that). So if not everyone wants or will get an iPhone, as you mentioned people having other options via Android or any other OS, then there are obviously many other options that people are interested in thus showing that iOS is not superior.
I feel the XBL indie game section is reasonably priced, I'm simply not that interested in getting a ton of indie games. Several have caught my attention though, and as vain as it seems I have to agree with Big Blak's point that indie games don't have achievements as the main reason for not making purchases.
@bsu
Of course there are other options. iOS currently has the superior volume and or quality marketplace right now. WP7 can integrate more Live functionality and e a tremendous competitor. I'm not talking about a graph that shows devices in the market making iOS superior. I can roll down my window and spit and I'm pretty sure it would hit an Android device. Their digital market doesn't have as many options though. Thus this is what makes iOS superior for indie content.
I agree also that the Live section is priced reasonably until you have to spend more on points than the game.
We're starting to get back to debates we've had before. This just goes back to the difference between the issues you just brought up: volume and quality. I think iOS only has one of those, whereas I feel other markets have only the remaining option.
:)
I'm willing to bet iOS has both over the three consoles. Why? It has to. It competes with Nintendo lol
What experience do you have with iOS devices to form this opinion?
One of Ray's good points in this article is that the press pretty much ignores all indie titles. So it's not like you could have read extensively about it. However, what you can read about is this:
Alot of Indie games published for iOS… are not Indie games by the time they make it to XBLA. They made enough to grow by then.
Developing for iOS is cheaper and easier for quality production.
Another example… the game I personally have spent the most time with in my life is made by a SUPER SMALL (as in probably run out of someone's basement) studio out of Toronto called SMLSD. And they only develop for iOS.
I understand personal preference and all, but not giving credit where credit is due is morally wrong.
@Smartguy
My opinion would be otherwise. iOS has so much volume I don't think they have enough good stuff out there to proportionately counterbalance all of the junk.
@N8R
No I have not read anything specific about indie developers. What I have done is found some developers through twitter, they have found me through twitter, or just mindless searching which usually leads to nowhere in the iTunes store. In addition to that when I first got my iPod touch I searched far and wide for quality games out there by searching through websites devoted to finding quality games on iOS—I was severely underwhelmed by quality games. Also, searching on Google about some of the developers I see on twitter is the best way to actually have something to read about the developers. That being said I think I have some grasp on some of what is out there, not once have I claimed to be all knowing about any of these system's indie titles—actually, quite the opposite. From the games I have seen barely any of them interest me, or they are very similar puzzle games of some sort.
Now on XBL indie games I have browsed several times, not very recently though, and have always thought there was a small number of games actually there when compared to other systems. 1 M34D 4 G4M3 W1TH Z0M8135, or something along those lines, was a great game and I had no trouble finding a couple other quality titles in the mix.
I will gladly give credit where credit is due—in the iOS I haven't felt compelled to give credit.
To answer the original query… yes, there are a ridiculous amount of free titles that are on iOS.
On top of that, there are a ridiculous amount of indie devs who only develop ONLY on iOS. There are various reasons as to why that is.
In summation, you really can't be fair unless you have eq
(got cut off)
Unless you have equal experience with all the platforms.
My experience in this field.
XBL has the lowest quality of Indie games, but alot of them.
WiiWare has better quality, but the selection leaves alot to be desired.
The Minis on the PS Store are really quality, but again, selection leaves something to be desired.
iOS has the best selection as well as quality when it comes to Indie games… hands down.
I tend to gravitate towards bigger titles for the most part. I've tried a few of the indie games on XBL, but I always feel like I'm taking a shot in the dark. Thus I tend to stay away from them.
What does everyone else think about Hulu+ launching on Xbox 360 tomorrow? Sounds great, I just am a couple months away from being able to afford two $10 a month subscriptions. This could help make a better argument for not getting cable and only paying for internet/netflix/hulu+ after the wedding this summer.
I didn't know it was launching tomorrow I'm excited for this and it looks like we say good bye to cable real soon.
Yeah I've only started hearing things recently about it, but it seems like a great option for watching tv shows.
Not worth it yet. The free service + Netflix at the moment is still a better deal.
My suggestion… use your TV as an external monitor for your computer. That's what I did.
I would be more likely to do something like that, my fiance would need more. Of course I just read a post on twitter saying that Hulu+ would not have full functionality on XBL and would still have ads in both premium and free services. Makes it less tempting. I would probably be more enticed if they 1) actually felt like either MS or Hulu were marketing this, because as of yet I don't feel that way. and 2) if they offered a short period of a free subscription to the service. That's why I still have Netflix, they got me on a free month subscription and I haven't looked back since.
The ads are a minute long at most (2 30 second spots… or only one). They really don't bother me.
If you have no experience with Hulu, by all means, save your money and mess with the free service first.
I've used Hulu a couple times, but I always go to netflix or rapidshare first. Hulu has always had a slight disadvantage to rapidshare with me, lol.
I can relate.
I pretty much use Hulu to watch the latesy episodes of like The Office, 30 Rock, Smackdown, Fringe, and some other shows.
Just about everything else I go to Netflix or Capt. Jack.
Hulu will have a free 1 week trial on Live.
I like the Minis. I think I have bought 15 or so. But I did extensive research online before buying any (watched video, demos, reviews). I also like that you get the game on your PSP and your PS3 when you buy it once.
What are some good resources for PSP Minis coverage? Are they covered enough by the major sites or are there specialty sites you recommend?
Very few are covered by mainstream sites. I mostly relied on YouTube and specific Google search for games.
@ BSU
Okay… let me be clear on this… you're saying that you were underwhelmed by the quality of indie games on iOS but the Indie games on XBL were up to par?
This may need to be a poll, because that truly makes no sense to me that anyone could deduce that outcome (that word was for Big Blak).
That Z0MB13S game… I didn't give it 5 minutes.
I think we also need to clarify what an indie game is. Because the examples we've used are all games published by either MS, Apple, or Sony with seemingly no exclusivity agreements. If we're going to get to brass tacks… Windows has the best Indie games. Technically, anything made by Pop Cap is an Indie game, as well as Zynga. On iOS, one indie developer may have 20 different games (half of which are free) and on XBL, they may have 2 or 3 at most (none of which are free).
Devs also have a great ability to create monetary funnels with free games while having no ads via the in app purchases. For example, the game I referenced earlier that I have literally played everyday for over a year with no end in sight is called the Cartel. It was free to download… BUT… I have easily spent $300 dollars on that game… and the community is like 500,000 people. How and why? You level up with these points called Cartel Points. You can earn them through achievements (that take a while to get, if you're patient and dilligent, you may get 1 or 2 a day) or, you can buy them. I ended up buying a bunch and once I maxed out my levels, I ended up buying more and selling them for in game cash to get filthy rich.
The point: iOS has gone to lengths since day 1 to appeal to upstart visionaries… and it has paid off. As for searching iTunes… all you really have to do is look at the top free games.
I put a Scary Movie and something healthy in the dropbox for all. Enjoy.
Tech question for anyone out there:
Anyone have any idea why my laptop keeps getting disconnected from my wireless router despite being less that 20 ft from it? It has internal wireless, and this seems to happen no matter where I go.
Drivers.
Hardware issue at worst. Try a USB dongle if you have one available.
Gratz on Prince Mr Nightshade. Tremendous player at 19
Yeah, I marked out like a madman in my living room when they announced him. Fantastic player, especially at 19. Now hopefully we can get some O-line help and a MLB…..
HELL F'N YEAH! INGRAM!!!!!
buying jersey asap
That was a great pickup for the Saints. Honestly, I think our two teams got two of the 3 biggest steals, with the Jets getting the 3rd.
Indeed. Some teams really reached tonight though. Ponder so early??? I can't believe a 6ft corner with that skill fell so low.
No offense RROD…but Jones? That was a hell of a move to get him. Why not give up one more pick and get Green? Interesting though.
They tried to get up to get Green but the Bengals wouldn't budge. Anyhow, no 1 man is worth 5 picks in my opinion. I wish they didn't do that. Jones better his the ground running.
Haha it was reminiscent of Ditka's draft for Williams if you ask me.
Agreed.