Welcome to Coffee Talk! Let’s start off the day by discussing whatever is on your (nerd chic) mind. Every morning I’ll kick off a discussion and I’m counting on you to participate in it. If you’re not feelin’ my topic, feel free to start a chat with your fellow readers and see where it takes you. Whether you’re talking about videogames, the awesomeness of Brad Lidge, Crystalium being Sphere Grid 2.0, or the old rib eye vs. filet mignon debate, Coffee Talk is the place to do it.
Last week I came across this interesting Gamasutra article on videogame instruction manuals. It got me thinking about how my gaming habits have changed in regards to instructions. When I was younger, manuals were pretty important and often a valuable resource. Nowadays, I’m irritated if I have to open the box and pop out the manual. Heck, I haven’t even touched the manuals for the vast majority of games I’ve bought over the last three console generations.
There are two reasons why I rarely read videogame instruction manuals these days. The explosive growth of the Internet has made it so easy to find quality information on a game — info that’s almost always better than anything in the manual. More recently, in-game tutorials have gotten so good that I usually don’t need the Internet or a manual to figure things out.
As gaming moves towards digital distribution, manuals will become even less important (unless you love printing out PDFs) and eventually extinct. They’re still here today, so I want to ask for your views on instructions. Do you read them? Do you ignore them? Are they a last resort for you? Do you think in-game tutorials are the instruction manuals of today? I instruct you to leave your opinions on instructions! (Okay, I’m really just asking you and hoping you share.)
nope ray, you are correct, no need for manuals..only time in the last 5 years ive used a manual is so i could figure out how to make the qb slide in madden 09…i still dont know
I read the manuals for sports games to see what does what in a particular context. Example NBA 2k10.
Manuals used to be badass though….Blizz always had the best. Lots of story and art in their manuals. Now that I think about it…their manuals for Warcraft 2 and Diablo games would be packaged in CE games today.
so ray
is a rod your boy now?
remember:
http://www.details.com/images/details/features/04…
instruction manuals? who needs em. maybe it's because I'm a guy but I generally don't read the instructions for anything.
I've got a friend who reads the instruction manual for everything though. I don't think he reads many game manuals but I've definitely seen him take one out.
Like smartguy I appreciated manuals that added to the story and were enjoyable to read. 2 examples were Halo CE and GTA3
Instruction manuals are definitely needed in sports games. All other games offer in game tutorials. However, I was half way through inFAMOUS before I realize that there was a cover system. If I looked at the manual I would have known that in the beginning.
What about those strategy guides? Who buys strategy guides? There's a strategy guide for every game now so someone's buying them. I only buy a strategy guide for Tekken.
i don't buy strat guides. if i need something, GOOGLE works just fine.
@RROD, last strategy guide I got was Oblivion. I literally wanted to complete everything there was to do in that game. I had it all until the shivering isles expansion came out. I never finished that
@Shockwave
Welcome to the loser column. Now we just have to get Smartguy here with us. Hopefully, my Falcons will take care of that tonight. Those Ravens were hitting hard yesterday.
@RROD – ya, in desperation their d came to win. I'll give them that.
Good luck tonight. If the Falcons win I'll take the pool for the week.
Also, when is Indy going to finally play a tough team?
@shockwave
they play the pats next week
@Shockwave
Yeah, the Colts have played nothing but bad teams.
Any game short of a sports game normally has a tutorial section for basic controls. Outside of that, I really can't say that I check them out.
There are very few times that I will buy strategy guides. I really like to figure most things out for myself. I will check FAQs online every so often if there is something that is alluding me, but I try not to make it a habit. There are exceptions of course lol. Fallout 3: bought the game guide. There was no way I was going to spend that much time in a game and not know where things are. Open worlds are awesome, open worlds where you don't have a reliable map are not. I love exploring and finding things, but there is a point where I feel I am wasting my time.
I started using a FAQ map for Brutal Legend to find the last few things in the open world map (the one real complaint I have about the game is the map and it's constant shift away from where you are. I would also like to be able to set waypoints to things that are not missions). I am also using a FAQ for Uncharted 2 treasures (I'm good, but I'm not that good. They really went out of their way to hide some of them.)
@thunder, ya after they play the texans this sunday…man
I remember when instruction manuals had short stories in them so players would have something to read that helped them understand the context of the game. These days, players would be upset if they had to read the manual to understand what's going on.
I'm so used to games telling you how to play in the beginning that I never read the manual anymore. I still remember how people complained that Mass Effect didn't have an in-game tutorial. A lot of people didn't know the Mako had multiple firing modes, even though it was printed in the manual. We just assumed that if you could do it, some text would appear on screen to tell you how.
As far as strategy guides go… they're a waste of money. Half the guide takes away all the fun of figuring out how to beat the game on your own. The other half is information that you can get for free on the internet.
@ Larcenous – If I ever do go back and try to get all the treasures on Uncharted 2 I'm sure I'll use a guide. I've got about 30 right now with 2 plays through but they are tough to find
@Beating the game first – I think the only time I ever break the "play through it first" rule before checking guides is with the long haul RPGs. I don't ever look through them to ruin the story, but I hate, HATE, missing items/other important things. I will glady scan the next section to make sure their is nothing drastically important I will miss and risk catching part of the story then having to go back through and get it.
@Larcenous – with RPGs you almost have to if you want to get everything. hell I put well over 100 hours in to that game and definitely cheated a couple of times online with a guide. If you're not sure where to go you won't even find every mission the game offers.
A game like Uncharted 2 is linear and I can't imagine what a strategy guide could offer for advice.
@#18. I was referring to Fallout when I said that game… oops
@Shockwave
I finally started Fallout 3 over the weekend and I was extremely bored in the vault. I finally got out of the vault and stopped playing. I'm sure it will get better though. I also played Brutal Legend. It's descent, not great but descent. I still don't see what the fuss is about it. I'm at the part where I had to get the bass strings for the Motorhead guy to save Ophelia. Then I played Tekken 6 for the rest of the weekend.
One more thing, the graphics need a lot of work in Brutal Legend.
they only time i've used manuals is when i can't figure out a move, like a combo, or how to have the qb tuck the ball in and run!
I really don't use them but they also let you know that the games do have a 90-day limited warranty. if you read that far.
brutal legend is a funny game, i dont buy games cause they are funny though
first one to say cowboy gets my last cold coors light
@Shockwave – I have just gotten through Chapter 5 on treasure run… and they are in some ridicuous places. Kudos to Naughty Dog for the job they did hiding them. There are so many that you have to shoot down from verticle surfaces I would have never even thought to look at.
cowboy
@RROD, ya lots of setup and tutorial in the vault. it's the one time you're confined. think of the caves from Oblivion. now that you're in the open world I think you're going to enjoy it a lot more.
On tutorials one game I have a problem with is GTA. san Andreas and GTA4 had the longest learning curve. why is it that halfway through the game in 4 I'm learning how to climb on ledges (Something I use once) and near the end of SA I'm learning how to fly. their tutorials last the whole damn game
@larcenous
whats the incentive in trying to get all the trophies?
i mean besides getting a psn trophy
@larcenous wins
nevermind, i can buy more now, ive got ditkas wallet
@thunder – I haven't checked yet but can't you earn bonuses in Uncharted 2 by completing rewards? The money you earn is used to buy unlocks and cheats right?
That's how the first game was and that's why I really tried to get all the rewards
@RROD – it's definetly a niche product. I didn't have a problem with the graphics, but there are certain things that could have been more finely tuned. Even with the majority of the fire serpents found, Eddie's health is iffy at best, and I spend more time in the Deuce actually doing things then I do on foot. The exploration aspect and story is really where the game shines… while fun the stage battles are really a bit more awkward then anything else. Not sad that I bought it, but I am glad that I bought it pre Uncharted or else I would still not be around to it.
@Thundercracker
Yeah, I laughed a couple of times but the game is just not that good.
@rrod
the game gets much better…..did you decide to murder the headmaster or whatever?
your little girlfriends daddy?
@Thunder – in Uncharted, unlocking the trophies actually earns you in game cash that you can spend on single player perks or multiplayer goodies (skins, co-op weapons and the like). So it's really one game where being kind of completionist is in your best interest, plus it's just additional reasons to go through the game again. It's one of the few I am considering going through on the harder difficulties.
@Larcenouslaugh
See, I got it free with the buy 2 get 1 free deal at Toy R Us and I played it after playing Uncharted 2. That's a huge step back. The game is just meh to me. Oh well, at least I didn't pay for it.
@Thundercracker
Yeah, I killed that guy with a BB gun.
@RROD – silver lining :) I can understand the meh part though. If I wasn't able to simply lose my self in stupid everyone in a while (I spent countless hours doing nothing but swining around the city in Spiderman 2) I probably wouldn't still be messing with it. OCD and exploration trophies get me everytime though.
has anyone bought borderlands?
the more i see of that game the more i want it
@thunder – I definitely agree with you. I'd like to get it but it's on my backlog. between uncharted 2 and Dragon Age this week I just don't have time for Borderlands yet
is dragon age out yet? how is it?
dragon age comes out tomorrow, yet only one review on metacritic?
an 84, if you are wondering…from ign AU
i like manuals…though i never read em…makes the case heavy..
@thunder – Probably a release day review embargo
In-game tutorials are okay, I just wish some of them weren't so drawn out and boring like GTA4. Also I want the choice to skip that part especially on a second run through. But the booklets are only there because they always have been.
@thunder and everyone – don't bother with the IGN AU review unless you want to waste your time like I did. Although feel free to read the review if you want to read about 2 or 3 gripes and find out nothing about the gameplay, story, or combat. after reading that I don't know anything more about the game
We'll see if Atlanta can do it. They need to score 50 though.
Brutal Legend is fun. UC2 is just in a league of its own though. I got to the first village in Fallout and then quit. I couldn't get into the game. Quite a shame, I loved morrowind and oblivion.
@RRODisHere
If you don't like RTS games, you're not going to like the rest of Brutal Legend. If you love RTS games, then you really aren't going to like Brutal Legend. The strategy parts are off-putting to players who don't like them. At the same time, they aren't advanced enough for players that have played games like Starcraft or Command and Conquer.
I had a hard time with it at first. Once I got used to it, the RTS segments became really easy – and I was playing on Brutal difficulty. I thought people were crazy for saying it didn't have much depth at first, because I wasn't understanding a whole lot of the mechanics. When I figured out how to do it, I realized there wasn't much to learn in the first place.
I still like the game for what it is though. The ending fights were pretty awesome. I just wish I could play through it with all the stuff I unlocked so I don't have to go wandering around looking for bondage dragons again. I liked the story way more than the gameplay. Maybe Tim Schafer should write a movie.
i liked oblivion better than fallout as well, fallout was a good game though
maybe a little overrated? just a little?
I was the opposite. I liked Falllout far more then oblivion. I think the real difference for me was the VATS system. Being able to pause that first person shooting elements made the game all the better.
If the next Elder Scrolls game has the violence that Fallout 3 had, I have no doubt it will be far superior to fallout 3.
I too have liked all of the Elder Scrolls games a lot. I put a lot more time in Oblivion (probably 2 or 3 times as much) than Fallout. ES are in a league of their own but fallout was a pretty good alternative for fans of shooting
@thundercracker I'm still not sure I think of A-Rod as part of the family. He's more like a house guest that kind of bugs you, but for a moment you're thrilled that he's around.
i don't use manuals nor instruction manuals for games anymore… although sometimes when i start getting really into a game i do read the manual to find out attacks/moves that i can use to help me beat the game :3
Like a couple of other people already mentioned, I only use manuals once in a while for sports games like Madden to figure out one particular thing or another. Otherwise I treat them like I would the manual for anything else I buy….fireplace kindling.
@Nightshade386 Hmmmm, I'm thinking instruction manuals aren't the best for starting fires.
Not necissaily. But they cerainly don't get used otherwise.
Sorry I'm late guys, I'm sick as hell.
@ Shockwave
I was really hoping the Broncos would win so that next week the Steelers could shutdown 2 undefeated teams this year. Oh well, never under estimate the Ratbirds.
@ topic
I did read through the manual for Fallout 3 because it was entertaining. Other than that, it's like everyone else said…. for the controls to certain games.
@N8R Get better soon!
@ R Pad
Thanks, I'm trying. The big Q in NyQuil has been comforting. Other than that, it feels like my chest is going to implode on itself.
I love that big Q though.
@N8R Was Ric Flair chopping your chest again? Whoooooooooo!!!
@N8R – ya it's unfortunate but truth be told I'd rather beat the Steelers than the Ravens. so bring it on next Monday.
I like to read random facts about the game in the manuals and that is about it. Any information on how to play a game should be explained in the game itself.