Set to take place from August 3-4, 2013 in San Francisco is GaymerCon. The show is open to gamers of all genders, races, and sexual identities, but will obviously focus on the LGBT videogame community. To help make the event the best it can be, the organizers have put together a Kickstarter pitch. Check out an excerpt from the pitch and the (funny) video below.
We are creating a convention where all types of geeks can come together, meet others like them, and have a blast without having to worry about what their peers think of them or being discriminated against.. We will have exhibitor space, cosplay, guest speakers, live music, panel discussions on topics that are directly relevant to our interests, gaming industry professionals who support including queer content in their products, social events, and of course…GAMING!
We want to be clear this isn’t just for gay white dudes either. We want all genders, races, and sexual identities including our straight friends and allies to come together and have a gay, geeky good time. We believe very strongly that creating a space like this is not only important for building a strong community, but also showing new generations of gaymers that there are others like them out there, they are not alone, and there is a welcoming place for them, not just at GaymerCon, but as part of the larger gaming community.
GaymerCon 2013 will take place whether the organizers make their Kickstarter goal or not. I love that this show is happening and will make a pledge in the near future. I hope some of you do too. If you’ve ever played games online then you know that there are many homophobic and bigoted gamers out there. It’s awesome that gay gamers will have an expo that aims to be a “more tolerant and safer space in gaming”.
I wouldn’t give money for a gaming convention for any interest group. This shit is ridiculous.
Why would people go out of their way to make a “gay” gamers’ convention and then say that it’s open to both gays and straights? Why not just say it’s a (*generic*) gamers’ convention where all gamers are invited? Why the sexual orientation hook? If a huge group of people are coming together based on their love of a hobby and to celebrate that hobby, what does it matter what their personal background is?
That gives me an idea: I’m going to start my own “Colombian-American Gamers Convention” in Miami Beach. Everyone is invited, so you can be non-Columbian, gay, Jew, Presbyterian, female, centuar, elf, Yinzer, hobo, cannibal, Amish, etc., and still be invited. Except Peruvians. Those people suck. And, yes, we can tell who you are.
Stupid Peruvians always trying to sneak into a Colombian-American gamers convention.
-M
It’s about creating a safe space for gaymers without excluding our allies who support the gay community. The reason they say straights are welcome is so people don’t think there’s some kind of gay test to get in. It’s geared towards gaymers, but if you’re straight and you’re down with the gays…you can come support your gay friends.
Still sounds ridiculous.
Why exactly? It’s a community you want to contribute to or not.
I didn’t realize PAX was so dangerous….
Have you been? Have you heard the words “faggot” and “gay” used in insulting ways at the show?
People can be assholic and rude in public, but people calling others a derogatory term and pulling out a knife to stab someone are two very separate things. If I call some black guy “negro de mierda” at a game convention, that’s just me being an ass. It doesn’t mean that I’m going to physically assault the guy.
I usually don’t consider gaming get-together conventions as dangerous places to convene. If anything, an unsafe place for gamers to play would be in an abandoned warehouse in Compton or using your Nintendo 3DS while you are skydiving without a parachute.
-M
Sure, but a “safe environment” isn’t just talking about physical safety. Also, a Sony producer once tried to drunkenly fight me because he imagined that I was hitting on his girlfriend.
Ha, ha! Were you?
-M
A little bit, but I was sober enough to think, “Why the hell does this guy want to fight me?!?” Thankfully Zoe was there to make sure nothing happened. The producer and I have been on really good terms since that incident. He’s a cool dude and most people reading this site are familiar with his brother.
In college, I went to events held by all sorts of organizations to support my friends. I’m not Korean, but I attended many Korean Students Association parties, shows, etc. To me, it’s the same deal with GaymerCon.
Just to let you know, THEY probably thought you were Korean. It’s OK, I feel your pain. When I go to New York, people think I’m Puerto Rican. When I go to California, people think I’m Mexican, and when I go to Alabama… well, I don’t go to Alabama. That place scares me… and I live in Miami (where we have people that eat other people’s faces while nude and on the side of a busy highway in broad daylight).
-M
I assure you that they didn’t think I was Korean.
Why is Yinzer sandwiched between elf and hobo?
What are you trying to say?
You’re reading WAY too much into that. It’s not like I put them next to each other in that order because my thought process is: “mythical creatures”, “mythical creatures that are supposedly real that don’t speak coherent English”, “real creatures that don’t speak coherent English”… because that would be wrong. I honestly just typed out a bunch of groups that randomly popped into my head.
I think.
-M
@Ray Please support the openly white male Christian gaming convention. See how dumb that sounds? I wouldn’t support that either.
Want a safe environment? Don’t draw attention to yourself needlessly. I don’t care if someone is gay but I sure as hell mind that person reminding me about it. Just be a GAMER and leave it at that.
Oh and adding a Y is just plain begging for attention.
Again, you’re missing the point of community.
Not at all. I just think the idea is ill thought out.
I agree with Brandon on this one. And I’m very vocal in my support of equal rights for all, because all deserve them, regardless of color, creed, or orientation.
But at some point, we need to stop self segmenting our society. There will always be closed minded morons. Putting yourself in a box for them only makes them think that they’re right.
So you want people to have equal rights but you don’t want minorities to have social events where they can meet people like them?
I think the point is… we are all already like them/us if we are indeed all equal.
Exactly N8.
And don’t put words in my mouth Ray. I don’t really care if they wanna have their own little thing. That’s their right. But I think it’s stupid to keep self segmenting themselves off from the rest of us though if they ever want to gain true acceptance. Re-enforcing the idea of “difference” only re-enforces the discrimination they face on a daily basis. Fact is, they’re normal people like the rest of us, who deserve a seat at the same table that we all do.
I’m not putting words in your mouth. I just don’t understand your perspective. That’s fine though. If you don’t want to discuss it civilly then I’ll just drop it.
My point is that “separate but equal” is not equal at all. It’s a false premise. Equality can only be gained through acceptance. Any minority group constantly pointing out how “different” their group is re-enforces the idea that they’re “not like us.” Instead, they should be focusing on the things they have in common with everyone else. THAT’s how you gain acceptance.
Finally – while you may think you were being civil, when you completely recreate my argument for me, (due to a lack of understanding or not) you aren’t discussing it civilly. So don’t turn it back on me for pointing that bull out. There are other ways of saying that you don’t understand my perspective than by putting words into my mouth.
1) They’re have an event for their community but making it open to anyone that wants to attend. Seems like they’re being inclusive, not exclusive.
2) What minority groups do you consider yourself in?
Everyone here has been subject to some form of discrimination in their lives. The fact I’m not a black lesbian (or insert your own minority group here) doesn’t mean that I don’t know what discrimination feels like, or have history of it effecting my family.
I’m 35 year old a geek. You think I didn’t have a rough time of it in high school, when being a geek was significantly less accepted than it is now? I’m half Italian. You think I haven’t heard the mafia or “dumb meat-head” jokes all my life? Think about how my great grandfather, straight off the boat felt in the 1940’s when we were fighting a war with his homeland.
I’m part Irish. There was a time in this country when Hispanics were considered whites on government forms, but “Irish” was it’s own box. I’m 5’6″. You think I don’t get crap about my height to this day? One of my uncles came home from the Vietnam War with a Vietnamese wife. Bet things were real smooth for him.
The difference between you and me is that I don’t make a big deal out of my heritage on a regular basis – but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have pride in who I am and where I came from. To insinuate that I don’t get it somehow is rather shortsighted.
Frankly, I don’t get the mindset that says making a big deal out of that which makes us different from everyone else is what’s going to get people to accept us for who we are. It’s when they see that you’re not so threatening after all that they come to the realization that they’ve been stupid all this time – where as the guys wearing chaps in the gay pride parade are re-enforcing the perception of the “Godless Sodomites” that leads to about 3/4’s of the discrimination in the first place.
So no, I don’t care if they’re inviting everyone. The minute they made a big deal out of it being an event for “Gaymers,” they completely missed the point. What’s wrong with just going to PAX (or some other such event) and being a part of the entire Gamer community?
That’s interesting. I wasn’t aware that I made a big deal out of my heritage on a regular basis.
The situations with your great grandfather and how Irish people were treated have nothing to with how you live and are treated today.
Certainly there are aspects of LGBT discrimination that you can identify with, but you don’t really know what it’s like. Yet you speak with authority on how they can be accepted. I don’t think you can really know something like that.
Anyway, this was interesting, but I’m dropping this. There’s nowhere for the conversation to go.
I would, under no circumstances, knock another person’s ability to empathize. Empathy is what will eventually lead to acceptance of other groups and end discrimination. This “you don’t know how it feels because you’re not ____________” attitude only pushes away those that truly want to help those who have been disenfranchised.
Also, it’s no surprise that the most celebrated name in the history of the civil rights movement was a preacher whose emphasis was on equality and what about us was the same, rather than focusing on how the color of our skin makes us “different.”
I’m not knocking anything. Stop looking for insults. Empathy and first-hand knowledge are different things. And no, you don’t know what it’s like for the event organizers. You can’t. That’s reality. I can’t possibly know what it’s like to African-American or Mexican-American. There are aspects of being a minority I can identify with, but I don’t and can’t really know what that’s like. I don’t see how a reasonable personal can possibly think otherwise.
Anyway, are we finished here? Again, there’s nowhere for the conversation to go.
Well, if you’re going to continually downplay and ignore my perspective because I’m not gay, then yeah, there’s nowhere for this to go. But that’s a shortsighted and closed-minded way of dealing with a disagreement in philosophy, when ultimately we both want the same thing – equality for a group that has been disenfranchised.
I’m not ignoring anything. I will absolutely downplay that being a 5’6″ half-Italian, half-Irish geek gives you massive insight into LGBT issues. I don’t think it does. If you do, that’s fine. I will simply disagree. That’s not being shortsighted or closed-minded at all.
The fact that you think that one requires an exact same experience as another in order to either empathize or sympathize and have a legitimate perspective is entirely closed minded. That’s the point you seem to be missing.
I’m not missing that point because that’s not what I said. I already noted that there’s a difference between being able to empathize and actually knowing what an experience is like. There’s a huge difference.
That’s my point exactly. Being a gamer is a subculture that we can all be a part of. I don’t see a need to further segment gamers based on _insert reason_.
They want to meet and hang out with people like them. It’s a social event. I don’t see the agenda of segmenting the gaming community.
What agenda? The idea is just stupid to me.
As much as you are championing this I hope you feel the same about all social groups who want their own event.
You brought up “a need to further segment gamers”. That’s not what this event is doing or is about. And yes, I support the Women in Gaming and Blacks in Gaming events at E3. I don’t view them as trying to segment the gaming community.
Funny thing… If I started a white males’ Christian gaming club here in Southern CA… we’d minorities… and still get picketed.
However, I’m not Christian.
That’s what Irvine is for. :P
You know, with all the Chick-Fil-A nonsense going on right now, I’d much rather prefer the “issue” to be over and for people to stop arguing about it. Then again, there are plenty of stupid people in this world, which leaves me to believe that no solution will be reached any day soon.
A lot of people don’t understand what the issue is.
Would you like me to define it then? Okay, here goes nothing:
The issue is that people are creating an issue where there shouldn’t be one. My neighbor’s sexual orientation doesn’t change my life in any way; neither does the sexual orientation of a state senator, a tv celebrity, or even that guy that asks for spare change at the street corner. Here’s my question; if it doesn’t affect your life, why does it matter?
And the big secret? It doesn’t. But people are trying to make it seem like it matters, and therein lies the problem. If people stopped pretending that your sexual orientation mattered to them, then there would be no issue. I have a hard time understanding what it is that makes people thing there is a problem with being gay, lesbian or bi. Are they trying to shun what they don’t understand? Is it that they are different? Maybe they have religious reasons? The sooner we can figure out why people are making an issue out of a non-issue, we can fix this mess.
Ok, this topic is getting a little heated in here. Let me try to clear the air up a bit because it seems to me that there are two different levels of conversation that is taking place, which just stems from two different perspectives while looking at the same thing.
Mr. Padilla; I get where you and Ben WIlliams are coming from. You guys look at this event and taken at face value, it’s just a simple convention of like-minded gamers and those that support the community where they can all convene and play games together in a fun, worry-free environment. We get that. I will venture to say that no one here is a biggot and I think we all agree that holding an event like this is perfectly fine because we do, after all, live in a (somewhat) free country and there is absolutely nothing wrong or sinister about just having a gaming get-together with a like-minded group of people.
What me, Nightshade and B.H. are trying to point out goes beyond the surface or “face value” of the actual event. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, there IS a social stigma conveyed in this event and even it’s actual name. We are not just trying to point this out, but the irony of such an event.
For years, I’ve been hearing about “gay rights” this and “equality” that from the GBLT community. This is a subset of society that constantly clamors to be seen and treated as equals. The gaming community is also a subset of society. It is a community where we look at all people that play games and see them as “gamers”. This has nothing to do with background, sexual preference or religion. It is simply people playing games. Now, this convention blatantly points out a subset of a subset of society. The gaming community is not known for being overtly homophobic like ultra-conservative religious groups are. Sure you get the occasional a-hole (like me) that says stupid things that shouldn’t be said in public, but for the most part, gamers do not take up arms, torches, and pitchforks to actively try to rout out homos from the overall gaming community. In this sense, the people on this site feel that all gamers are equal. We (the “gamer” subset of society) do not discriminate between ourselves.
If you were to walk into a room of four people playing Castle Crashers, the first thought to come to your head would be something like: “Oh, there are four guys playing Castle Crashers in here” not “Oh, there are four gay guys playing Castle Crashers in here”. Do you see the difference? By pointing out that they are gay is to draw a distinction between them and us, when in reality, no such distinction should exist or be warranted in the general gaming community. There is no reason for it. By saying “gay gamers” or “gay gaming convention” is to point out your differences amongst a community that already accepts you at face value. The irony is that GBLT people work so hard to become accepted as equals and now, when they find a subset of society that accepts them (gamers) as equals, they want to differentiate themselves and call attention to what separates them from the rest of us.
I am not considered a hetrosexual gamer, you are not considered a Pinoy gamer, BSU isn’t considered a Christian gamer, N8 is not considered a Yinzer gamer, etc., etc. We are all just gamers because we are unified in our love of games. There is no need to split up and add discord to an already unified community in it’s love of playing games.
If I was gay, I would honesty find this convention insulting because I wouldn’t want people to see me as a gay gamer, or even a gay guy, but just an ordinary guy that like to play games. That is what we all are regardless of background or orientation. This gaymercon thing is sending the wrong message to the wrong people, whether you choose to believe it or not. It is telling us (overtly or covertly) that “hey, we’re so different from other gamers that we need to have our own convention to celebrate our differences,” when in reality, there is no difference. They are just ordinary gamers like us that like to play all of the same games as we do and have fun in the same way. Why would a group of people that want to be treated equally go out of their way to show a community of people (that already accept them for who they are) how different they are from the rest of us? If GBLT people want to be treated as equals, then they should act like equals and not keep reminding us of our differences when no differentiation is warranted.
In contrast, there is a gay republican group (another subset of a subset of society) that I know exists because the leaders of the republican party does not want to acknowledge the gays in their group. Because of this, they have to band together and hold their own convention. These gay republicans long for the day that they will be accepted by the party leaders (and the majority of the party) so that they won’t have to hold their own conventions and can just be seen as plain, ordinary republicans, just like the rest of them. What this Gaymercon thing is doing is the exact opposite. Gay people already have acceptance within the gaming community and now they are trying to “break off” to show that they are so different from the rest of us, that they need their own gay-centric convention. Like B.H. said; that’s just silly.
I could seriously write a book about this and other strange things minorities do to cement their diminutive stature in society, but I’ll stop there. I know where both sides are coming from and neither is “right” or “wrong”, but simply a different way of looking at the same thing. I hope that this post has clarified how the other side looks at this event. I also hope that you could at least acknowledge the message Gaymercon would send (unintentional or not) out to our general society if it ever happens.
-M
Definitely a +1, but I have an objection or 2.
When you said -“The gaming community is not known for being overtly homophobic”-… that’s just flat out untrue and you probably don’t realize it because you don’t play as much multiplayer with randoms, but more people you know.
I would play RDR and there was one gun commonly referred to as the “fag pistol”… whenever I heard someone say it, I would report them immediately because I found it as offensive as someone commonly referring to something as “nigger rifle” or “spic cannon”. It’s just wrong… yet VERY common.
That’s not the only game either. Gamers CONSTANTLY use the word “gay” to refer to something negative. That too, is wrong. Also… you don’t get “beaten badly”… nor do you get “ultra-super-mega-pwned”… nor do you simply get “raped”… no… you get “ass-raped”. Don’t try and argue that it’s not worse due to homophobic implication… because that’s really what it is.
Also, you said -“The irony is that GBLT people work so hard to become accepted as equals and now, when they find a subset of society that accepts them (gamers) as equals, they want to differentiate themselves and call attention to what separates them from the rest of us.”-… Okay, it’s not that big of movement. This is probably a few people that Ray probably knows trying to get something started through Kickstarter. Like your first paragraph says, it’s totally awesome and I respect the ambition. Kudos for that.
Now… with this in mind, I think straying away from the mass of gamers and starting a separate convention rather than heavily attending the already placed conventions is a step away from the goal that seems to be in place. It doesn’t seem so much as a fight for equality as it does a flight for equality. The only way anyone is going to feel accepted anywhere is by being there in the first place. Taking your ball and going home just makes you “THAT f*#kin’ kid”.
Past the value past the face value… I see a “divide and conquer” threat in the making. If Americans can’t get along with each other by now, there’s really no hope. These subsets and races and orientations and nationalities and blondes vs brunettes and who’s hot/who’s not… it just makes it easier for us to get mowed down by people who are better organized. “United we stand, Divided we fall”. It really is that simple.
I agree with your last paragraph, which is why I think we should celebrate the things we have in common and not point a spotlight on those things that differentiate us and keep segregating ourselves into smaller and smaller niche groups.
By the way, I KNEW someone was going to point out that gamers are homophobic giving the examples you cited. I play a lot of Gears 3 and Halo online with randoms and yes, you do have the occasional 14-year-old punk that talks too much. I’ll even admit that I’ve used the word “gay” to describe something bad/stupid in games more times than I can count. The point I was trying to make is that just because I (or others say that) doesn’t mean we’re anti-homo (homophobic is fear of gays, which I am not) it just means I have a poor choice of words or limited vocabulary. I am one of these people that abhor political correctness. I think people should feel free to be themselves in private and public because it is a form of honesty, and I like it when people are honest. (How awesome and entertaining would it be if we saw people on TV- like politicians- that could only tell the truth?)
The way I envision equality is this: At a gaming convention, I’ll be playing a versus multiplayer game with the guy next to me. Since I suck at those things, he’ll be killing me over and over and over again (despite me cheating by looking at where he is on his screen). Out of frustration, I’ll blurt out “stupid fag!” (probably in Spanish), in which the guy (without missing a beat) will respond: “talentless spic.” We’ll then look at each other, laugh our asses off, and then go grab a few beers while we talk about where Resident Evil went wrong for the next two hours.
I know you probably think that this is some kind of fantasy scenario, but I think that we can really get there. I also think, like many people, that anonymity makes people a lot more “brave” over the internet. I’m sure that a lot of these punk kids that say stupid things wouldn’t say that if they were in front or facing the actual person they were playing. That is why I said that the gaming community is accepting of all people (regardless of what asinine phrases me and other people say). In very general terms; gamers want to play with other gamers and they don’t care about the person’s background that they are playing with/against.
-M
I’m saying that alot of these punk kids don’t really know better yet. It’s hard to be gay in high school (except maybe for girls, but I really don’t know).
I try to be pretty conscientious of my rhetoric. Maybe because I have kids, maybe because I’ve been writing lyrics and advertisements forever… I don’t know, unless I’m certain the other party finds pure fish out of water humor in what I say or I’m making a point against hate speech, I try to refrain.
Here’s one to think about… would this thread be this active or this open if it was a convention for black people (in which everyone else is invited to as well)?
I would still stand by my argument. I wouldn’t want any differentiation between black gamers and other gamers, either. An “Afri-gamecon” would be equally as guilty of segregation as “Gaymercon”. If you are not an “Afri-gamer” and you go to the event, then, again, why not make it just a regular, ordinary gaming convention for everyone instead of calling it a “white” or “black” event?
Like MLK said: “I have a dream that one day little black boys and black girls will be able to join in a system link game with little white
boys and white girls and virtually teabag each other after a shotgun to the face in Halo.”
I’m pretty sure that’s what he said.
Here’s another one to think about: If Gaymercon happens and way more straight people show up instead of gay people, would they change the name or the theme of the event for the next year? Will they even try to hold it again the following year if that happens?
-M
Whether or not you stand by your argument isn’t what I asked. I asked if you thought this thread would be this active?
See, I think people (in general, not necessarily you, SG, or Nightshade) would be less likely to speak up and give it a more “whatever” approach.
To answer your question, then: probably not.
I’d agree that (in general) people would be more passive about an “Afri-gamecon”.
Do you think I should trademark that?
-M
Agreed.
Now… WHY would people be more passive? And is that right?
As for the trademark… probably not.
I am not intelligent enough to answer your first question, but I will say that “no”, it’s not right (regardless of the reason).
…. I’m still going to the US Patent web site though… just to check.
-M
Hey, I’m just glad we don’t have anyone in here shouting from the rooftops about the “godless sodomites” who want to destroy the sanctity of marriage. On some sites, that’s exactly where this conversation would have gone.
Unfortunately, far too many people in this country hide their blatant homophobia behind their religious beliefs and defense of “traditional marriage” while simultaneously disregarding other “higher laws” regarding marriage directly handed down from the bible that we no longer care about….like how they’re no longer arraigned, we’ve done away with dowries, men aren’t allowed to have concubines anymore (here’s looking at you King David), and how if you die before your wife gives birth to a son, she no longer has to marry your brother and have sex with him until she gives birth to a son (phew….we’ve got a son, we’re good). Also, we have a 50% divorce rate. But hey, gay people are a threat to traditional marriage.
::rolls eyes::
Although I have a different take on gay marriage than most people I know, it is suffice to say that according to the law (Amendment IX and X), the Federal government has nothing to do with this. It is very clearly a state issue and should be dealt with at the sate level. This is in 100% accordance with the law of the land, for better or worse (pun intended).
-M
The event is in San Francisco, arguably the most gay-friendly city in America. The Bay Area in general has one of the highest concentrations of game publishers and developers in the country. Your hypothetical is up there with Scarlett Johansson meeting me for dinner tonight.
Hey, I’ve always liked your chances with SJ (don’t know about tonight, though). I think you guys would make a cute couple, so I’m going to interpret your answer as: “50-50”
Why don’t you tweet her if she wants to have dinner with you tonight, just for the hell of it? What’s the worst that could happen? If she says “no, thanks” you’ve lost nothing, but if she says “sure, why not?” then you would have a REALLY interesting Coffee Talk subject the next day, plus you would legitimize my hypothetical question (which you really didn’t answer).
-M
So just call it “The San Francisco Gamer Convention” or something. Putting the emphasis on any one group over another is just wrong.
Why do you think it’s “over” anything? The event is “for”.
There are thousands of social, cultural, political, and professional organizations/events that cater a to particular group of people. How are they wrong? Are you going to tell the NAACP that the group is wrong because we’re all people? Are you going to tell the NCLR that the organization is wrong because we’re all Americans?
I think on some level they’re all ridiculous, yes. ESPECIALLY those political groups you just mentioned because far too often they absolutely do put the priorities of their own demographics above the needs of other groups in similar or worse situations, when a rising tide lifts all ships. Equality shouldn’t be about who deserves it first.
They’re not political groups. That’s only a component of their functions. They empower and advance their members in many ways that have nothing to do with politics.
By your logic, there should only be one group that helps all people. You don’t see the amazing flaw in that thinking?
Yes Ray, THEIR members. They’re basically saying “let’s make sure that all of OUR group is represented equally and treated fairly, but those ‘other’ guys over there can fend for themselves. Equality for us, who cares about them.” So yes, it’s absolutely absurd, and I can’t believe that you don’t see the amazing flaw in THAT thinking.
I would see a flaw in “THAT” thinking, but your interpretation of what these organizations are and what they do couldn’t be more wrong. Groups of all kinds — ethnic, political, social, etc. — are driven by their goals and agendas. No group can possibly further all things for all people. Yet that’s the only solution you offer. What is this mythical group that “lifts all ships”? Minorities have organizations like the ones mentioned to help advance their people. That’s a positive thing that you’re view negatively because your think it excludes. You lack perspective on the matter.
It’s fascinating that you can talk about equality at great length and also call an organization that was instrumental in ending segregation in America ridiculous.
(I’m going to regret getting into this conversation but…)
What is the goal of these minority organizations you speak of? What happens to the organization when they reach or exceed their goal? In the case of the NAACP, they won already. Why do they still exist? They have been around for over 100 years and their goal when the organization first formed was equality for “colored people”. Black people are finally equal in the eyes of the law. If their goal is to eliminate all forms of discrimination against black people forever, then that is an unrealistic and unattainable goal, because hate will always exist in one form or another in individuals. The REAL reason the NCAAP (which has an offensive name, by the way) is still around is because they have a budget of $27.6 million dollars. So even if this organization achieved it’s fictional goal of absolute total anti-discrimination against black people forever, they still wouldn’t go away, because there are some people that are making LOTS and LOTS of money on this thing and they are going to fight to keep it around long after it’s useful life in order to keep getting rich.
What may start out as a legitimate political bout will soon blossom into a multi-million dollar business (the business of political lobbing) and it will never end because these organizations will set up open-ended “goals” that will never realistically be accomplished in order to sucker in bleeding-heart people being conned into giving these organizations money after being subjected to a “look-at-us-poor-victims” speech by said organization. I see this all the time down here.
I’m not saying that all of these minority organizations are evil or bad, I’m just saying that 1) You have to look into what the main goal of the organization is and if it can be realistically accomplished (not to mention actually having a plan to accomplish the goal) and 2) Never underestimate the power of corruption by the “almighty” dollar.
-M
They’re both civic organizations that do many things. I don’t think you can simplify it to one goal. Both organizations list many of the things they do — advocacy, legal defense, youth programs, education, etc. Are there people in each organization profiting and taking advantage? Sure. But both groups still do a lot of good.
Here’s another tangent as to why I don’t really tell gay jokes either (full disclosure… one of my anecdotes) :
In Pittsburgh, I have a friend named Bob. Bob is a really nice guy who’s slightly evil on the inside, but not outwardly evil at all. He’ll talk a big game, but is a super nice guy when all is said and done.
Anyway, Bob was staying with me and my wife (then girlfriend) while he was between housings. We didn’t charge him anything, but we didn’t have a car at the time (didn’t really need it in Pittsburgh, it just helps) and the deal was that Bob had to drive us around. This included helping my band with gigs (which were weekly at the time).
One day, I have no idea why, but in my youth I slipped up and called him a “faggot” for some reason. He paused all seriously and was like “Yo, don’t call me that.” That’s when I asked “Bob… are you gay?” to which he replied “No… I just think the word is offensive”
I agreed… but I made it a point to crack any gay joke I could think of at his expense whenever they popped in my head without ever saying “faggot” again. Exactly one day later, Bob and I are having a post-show cheeseburger with my band when I crack some gay joke. A slight chuckle rolls over the table… and the topic changes,,, and some time passes. Bob gets up to go to the bathroom. As soon as he’s out of earshot, the whole band turns to me like “Dude, is Bob really gay?” because they had never even seen him look twice at any of the many females that would attend our shows (he was just shy) and were truly curious. I told them no, and explained the situation. Once they were in on it… it was on.
It turns out that gay jokes are INCREDIBLY easy to make and 75% of the time they get laughs. Poor Bob was afraid to talk around us after a while because it got so common. I mean, he just kept walking in to traps. It was WAY too easy.
Once I realized how easy it was to make gay jokes, I stopped because there’s no challenge. If the object of the game is “make people laugh”, then telling gay jokes is the equivalent of playing the game on very easy. Where’s the fun in that?
The silver lining for Bob… Once people started asking him if he was gay and others just assuming he was… he got less shy, REAL fast. He was chatting up the ladies non-stop just to get people to stop asking him. He’s now a father to an awesome baby girl.
Well said Iceman.
I mostly don’t agree with you, but found your post very interesting and I’m thankful it was courteous. I completely disagree that the conference organizers are trying to “break off to show that they are so different from the rest of us”. Like I’ve said several times in this thread, it’s a social event where gay gamers can meet other people like them.
Why was I part of the Asian Students Union in college? Why did I start Liga Filipina at school? It wasn’t part of a political agenda to point out that the Asian students at school were different or apart from other students. I joined the former to meet other people like me. I started the latter so Filipino students could connect with other Filipino students. By some of the logic being thrown around here, these groups shouldn’t exist at all because we were all students.
Like Nate, I also disagree that the gaming community is not known for being overly homophobic. In addition to playing online, just look at high-traffic gaming sites and forums — you’ll see homophobic posts aplenty.
well said and thanks for defining homophobic correctly. I see people in the thread still don’t know what it means.
As far as the community goes….trash talk is trash talk. I believe we had a fun convo on this site about what Garnett said last season and had to apologize. I will give up playing multiplayer games if I can’t talk trash or troll a little bit. That’s such a given in competitive gaming!
Yes the gay gaming convention is definitely divisive. Why not just hold a gay get together? Why call it a gaming convention? What’s the focus? Games? Gay life? I just know that I as a straight male do not feel welcome there since the focus isn’t on games.
The pitch video clearly states that anyone that wants to attend can go. Like the KSA example I used earlier, I was welcomed at those events even though I’m not Korean. And no, I don’t think that student group and their events were divisive.
Why not just hold a gay get together? Maybe because people can be more than one thing at a time. Maybe because not all gay people like games. Maybe because it’s difficult for some gay people that like games to meet other gay people that like games; the even facilitates that.
What’s the focus? The video and site made it pretty clear to me. Did you watch the video and read the site?
Using a remark you made earlier…is it really that hard to find other gay gamers in San Francisco?
Yes I read their site, no I did not watch the video since it seemed redundant and I use my iphone during the day and it uses ATT. Their focus absolutely is not on Games. The focus is about meeting other homosexuals who happen to like games.
Ray I guess we are beating a dead horse. I don’t know if you think less of me or anyone else who disagrees with your glowing praise for the referenced Kickstarter project but so be it. You don’t want to even entertain the notion that having a convention that explicitly says they want homosexual gamers (but “straights” are welcome) could be seen as off putting to heterosexual gamers. I have never seen or heard of a convention that markets itself to being “for the heterosexuals but gays are welcome!”.
If you’re looking, you can find all sorts of people in San Francisco. The conference will draw people from all over the country I imagine. Some will come from places where it is difficult to meet gay gamers.
Your last example is like Christian churches that want Christians to attend mass, but welcome people of all beliefs. There are many examples that could be used there. You’re accusing the conference of being some sort of separatist movement, but you also acknowledge that they’re welcoming everyone. So which is it?
No one is accusing the conference of being some sort of separatist movement. What we’re pointing out is the sad and ridiculous irony of a group that strives to have the same rights as everyone holding an event that specifically points out the ONE way that they are different from everyone else.
It’s a social event. You’re trying to make it out to be some kind of civil rights faux pas. What are your problems with the Blacks in Gaming and Women in Gaming events?
I’m not going to explain my position again, as it’s effectively the same as with regards to this GaymerCon example. You don’t agree. Fine.
But Perception is Reality. And a lack of intent makes something no less divisive when it’s a poorly thought out idea that puts the emphasis on one group of people over another.
As an aside, my wife would never go to a “Women in Gaming” event. She finds the entire idea ridiculous and a step backwards for her place in the overall community. So what if she’s a woman who happens to be a gamer? If you have a problem with that, she’ll gank you online. End of discussion.
Funding has been exceeded. It doesn’t matter if you think it’s poorly thought out. There are people that want to attend the event and are willing to back it with money.
There are always people willing to back something with money.
Or you have no idea what the backers and people planning to attend want. You talk about empathy and equality, but all you’re doing is looking down on social gathering being put together by a minority group.
I think you (and the organizers of events like this) underestimate the message that these sorts of events send to the people outside of their community. The name in and of itself is exclusionary. 80% of people will never get past the name to the mission statement. They’re putting themselves into a separate bubble from all other gamers and they don’t even realize it. If you consider pointing that fact out and commenting on it’s sad irony and stupidity as “looking down on a minority group,” then there’s really nothing I can say to you anymore on the subject, because you’re not willing to even understand.
It’s interesting that you’re stating some of your opinions as if they were facts. There is nothing more you can say because you don’t understand the perspective. You’re part of the majority and you’re looking down on this group by calling it ridiculous and stupid.
OR, if roughly half of your regular followers feel that this is ridiculous on some level, none of whom come across as racist or homophobic, then maybe there’s more of a problem with the messaging here then you’re willing to accept.
I’m not talking about anyone else but you at the moment. You called the conference ridiculous and stupid, yet still claim that you’re not looking down on it. Like I said a long time ago, I rather drop this. Very little of what you’re saying makes sense to me and obviously we won’t agree on the issue. The numbers speak of themselves. No matter how much you think of your ability to “know” what the LGBT community wants, there are obviously people excited about the event. That’s a good thing.
Whoa… I’m by far not saying trash-talk should be eliminated or even tamed, I’m just saying I’d feel better about myself if I called you an asshole or a dumbass instead of calling you a gumbo-eatin swamp dweller (or insert racial/cultural slur here).
I just mind the line because I feel that kids that don’t know any better tossing around hate speech creates further animosity. I know we’re all adults who were raised by parents who cared about us (well, except for one of us… you know who you are), but not everyone I play with is.
Using “gay” to mean “bad” just isn’t right.
“gumbo-eatin swamp dweller?” C’mon, man, you can do better than that.
Think: Bobby Boucher.
-M
Yeah, I’m not very practiced when it comes to slandering ethnicities and cultures.
We need to hang out then. I have an ethnically derogatory slur for almost every south and central American country you can think of (plus Greek).
I use them mostly when driving on the streets… and you would too if you drove down here on a daily basis.
-M
So, with all this arguing and stuff going on, I’m going to tell you something. Apparently, there could be massive riots worldwide in 2020. According to a team of scientists, there tends to be a surge in the number of protests, riots and revolts once every 50 years, and this has been documented since the 1700s. The last big riot period was in 1970, making the next in 2020.
What do you think? Personally, I believe it. Rioting has gotten worse, shootings are more common (sadly enough), arguing is getting more and more intense… I won’t claim to know for sure, but it is certainly looking possible.
Just thought I’d throw this out here for obvious reasons:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/119543-Gaymer-Sub-Reddit-Faces-Legal-Threat
So… start trademarking cool, made-up words now, kids!
-M
haha