Coffee Talk #325: Homosexuality in Games

I was surprised to find that several Dragon Age II players are bothered by the homosexual romance options in the game — particularly the male romances. Some players are uncomfortable with…

Welcome to Coffee Talk! Let’s start off the day by discussing whatever is on your (nerd chic) mind. Every morning I’ll kick off a discussion and I’m counting on you to participate in it. If you’re not feelin’ my topic, feel free to start a chat with your fellow readers and see where it takes you. Whether you’re talking about videogames, the NCAA basketball final four, Wyclef Jean getting shot, or a Montanta Radio Shack offering free guns with Dish Network, Coffee Talk is the place to do it.

I was surprised to find that several Dragon Age II players are bothered by the homosexual romance options in the game — particularly the male romances. Some players are uncomfortable with their male Hawke being courted by Anders and Fenris. Some players wish that there was an option to turn off homosexual romances. I found these sentiments a bit backwards and homophobic, but I”m trying to understand why these gamers feel the way that they do.

I think it’s great that gamers have the option for their male Hawke to have a relationship with a whiny male apostate like Anders. I think it’s wonderful that players can have their female Hawke fall in love with a filthy pirate wench like Isabela. If players rather have a heterosexual relationship, those options are there too, of course. This is a role-playing game and I appreciate the diversity of romantic roles Dragon Age II offers. I don’t understand why some gamers have a problem with being hit on by a character of the same sex. If that’s not what you want then respond accordingly, no?

Do any of you have issues with the homosexual romances in Dragon Age II or other games? Does it make you uncomfortable? Or do you not care? I’m curious to hear your opinions. Let’s share and have a candid discussion. No judging please!

Author: RPadTV

https://rpad.tv

56 thoughts on “Coffee Talk #325: Homosexuality in Games”

  1. I'm not fond of homosexual romance at all. Thanks for asking.

    Are there random homo characters that hit on your character without provocation? I can understand how people would not like that.

    1. There are several moments in the game where you have the option to reply in a romantic way. Most of them have the protagonist being the forward one. I can only think of one instance where one of the male companions flirts first. It's not really an overt thing.

      1. Wait…so you can see the dialog choices to be gay?

        I'd never choose them, but it would bother me that they are there in front of me though.

        Having that male companion flirt first would be a deal breaker for me as well. I don't think there is anything wrong with me feeling that way…much the same way a hetero female might not like a guy cat calling her or another woman making a pass.

        Kind of makes you wonder whether or not sexuality should be a checkable option during character creation though.

      2. It's not specifically labeled as a "gay" choice. During certain conversations with male and female characters, there's an option labelled labeled with a heart icon.

  2. You have to understand Ray, as a completely straight man the sight or thought of two men kissing or any thing else makes me want to throw up. I don't have a problem with gays, we can even hang out but I don't want to see that. My wife and I were watching Glee last week and the two boys kissed and my dinner almost came back up. You and others may not understand my stance but I don't understand why some men don't like women.

  3. Wait… isn't Luigi gay?

    I mean… Mario goes after the princess… but Luigi seems content.

    1. Leave it to you to keep ruining my childhood with your unwarranted accusations.

      I always played with Luigi since my big sister would always play with Mario.

      …

      Wait; … that didn't come out right.

      -M

  4. It's not something I would want in a game I played. There are several ways of looking at this and a lot of people will feel very differently about this. A lot of people I know who are open to homosexuality still do not want to see or hear anything about it. They are alright with letting it exist outside of their vision. In that case of course they do not want to see it in a game that they play.

    There are people out there who probably really appreciate seeing something like that in a game, but it's not really a strong American sentiment. It's not something we really allow in our culture all the time, and usually only happens in mainstream areas. I would argue that people who play RPG's such as Dragon Age 2 are probably not going to follow or agree with that mainstream sentiment, because the nature of people who play video games and RPG's are stereotypically not members of mainstream culture. It is then inaccurate to assume that the players would accept that mainstream mentality. Being unaware of what exactly is in the game I can't really comment past this analysis, but if there is a choice it is as easy as choosing another option. Games are very forced with decisions anyways because the choices and actions are limited to what the programmers put in the game—from that stance I can completely agree with people not wanting those choices there in front of them.

  6. I would like to clear something up first. Tolerance does not mean that I am OK with something or approve of anything. It simply means that I tolerate it. "Homophobia" is fear of gay people. I mention this because this word is often misused. I doubt that anyone is afraid of gay people, but I do think there are some people out there that dislike gay people just like I know there are people out there that dislike me for whatever stupid reason.

    I will tolerate gays and gayness in any media because I have to. It's a choice that the creators (of the game) made and I have no control over it. People are critical of books, movies, TV Shows and games and will nitpick at every little aspect about why it was good and/or bad. I seriously doubt that the possibility of making a minor choice in the game will render the overall work to be judged good or bad by any sane person.

    That said, I think that maybe that particular choice to have a heterosexual relationship did not fit in well with the tone of the game. I'm just taking a shot in the dark here, since I have not played the game, but from just the descriptions and screenshots, the game looks like it would fit in better with the heterosexual lifestyle. Yes, I know it's a RPG and that freedom of choice is essential to this, but that doesn't mean that it may have been a bad decision to put that option in the game. For example; what if we had the choice to have Link fall in love with Tingle? It would be disastrous for the game since he'd just run off and elope with the wanna-be fairy (turned fairy) and leave Zelda to rot with Gannon. In that context, a gay choice in a RPG doesn't fit.

    Similarly, If you have a game called "South Beach Designers" or "Ancient Roman Man-Boy Games", then I would expect there to be a ton of homosexual references and/or sodomy. I can totally see a Nintendo Wii game where you play the role of Marcello, the flaming hair stylist. You'll use the Wii remote and nunchuck to cut, gel, color, and style your way to make a fabulous name for yourself as the premier hair stylist in the world. (The game would be similar to Trauma Center, only with people's hair)

    So I guess what I'm saying is that maybe some people were taken aback by the gay choice because they didn't see it coming or it did not fit well with the tone of the game. And again, I understand that a RPG is all about making choices, but why would they half-ass a gay choice just simply by having male-to-male romantic interactions and not, say, letting you color your armor pink and painting a large rainbow and male symbol on your shield?

    -M

    1. Pink armor and rainbow shields wouldn't really speak to gay people. Things like that would appeal to effeminate people, whether they're gay or not. People in the "bear" community would hate stuff like that, for example. It's not like there's one type of gay man with the same sensibilities.

      1. Yes, I realize the massive stereotyping I've typed about in that last post. It's just what I'm exposed to down here, so that's what I go with. I'm sure the people in Montana have their own brokeback people up there without the skin tight, see-through satin baby-blue leopard-print tank top and purple-dyed, spiky hair.

        I think I am going to regret asking this, but; what exactly is a "bear" community?… and why does it make me think of Zangief from Street Fighter?

        -M

      2. Actually, Zangief would be a great bear. Bears are a sub-section of the gay community. Generally they're on the heavy side and have lots of facial hair. A lot of bears don't like twinks (effeminate male gays).

      3. Can a woman be a bear? I used to work with one.

        Description:

        Grey high and tight

        About 190lbs

        5'6"

        Always a tshirt and painter jeans.

      5. They both had some. To be quite honest it was the first time I had ever been around a butch woman like that. Her date had the full mullet.

      6. I love how you randomly throw in the word "sodomy," as if all gay people hunt down and molest children. (note sarcasm here)

        Honestly, I understand the idea of being uncomfortable with being forced to track down gay "Stud Cards" for the male dress designer for Gepetto's puppet in Shadow Hearts II. I don't see the issue when it comes to letting grown adults play a game that offers romantic options in a way that is most appropriate for that person.

      7. The Stud Cards in SH2 were flippin hilarious. As was the tower that the wrestler dude had to climb. Loved that.

        I dont think there is anything wrong with the choice being made available to adult gamers, especially when it's optional.

      8. You misinterpret my comment on the sodomy remark. I did not “randomly throw it out there”. I never mentioned or even alluded to gay people hunting down and molesting children. I don’t know how you got that from reading that one line where I referenced an act of love in context with a homosexually-oriented fictional game.

        All I meant by that was if you were to have a game called “South Beach Designers” and/or “Ancient Roman Man-Boy Games”, (depending on what the game was rated, of course) you could expect to have some kind of interactive relationship in those games that could, of course, involve sodomy amongst other things, since gay people do that.

        The whole point of my post was to point out that maybe a gay relationship option did not fit the tone/theme of the game. If you had male-male interaction in GTA4; Ballad of Gay Tony (if it were a RPG) then an optional homosexual relationship storyline would have made more sense than in a game like, say, Halo.

        I put the sodomy thing in there mainly as a joke, but if you want to take it seriously, that’s cool. Believe it or not, I would have still loved Ballad of Gay Tony even if he had a “hot coffee” moment because the game was good. Would I go out of my way to play the “hot coffee” mini-game had it existed: No.

        If “regular” politicians had a problem with the male-female consensual sex mini-game in an M-rated game, can you imagine what the outcry will be if they find out about a male-male interactive sex game?

        -M

        P.S.- You know at first, I was going to say “Gears of War” instead of “Halo”, but then I stopped an thought that gay interactions would probably explain a lot and actually make sense in the Gears franchise.

        Somebody go tell Cliffy.

      9. Hot Coffee: Prison Style.

        This got me thinking, how cool would an Oz RPG be, huh? I mean you have your races, your clans (gangs), sexual preferences, in game economy (smokes for drugs)… it almost seems like a no brainer.

      11. I was gonna say Hot Coffee: Extra Cream, Hold the Sugar Edition… but that's just too dirty.

    2. That's really stupid, the whole link thing. Many RPG's allow you to become evil and ruin the original storyline set for you because you enjoy being evil as a character. So why can't being gay allow you to change up the story? Also, Link has never once ended up with Zelda, she just talks to him in the end(which is pretty lame) so even if he was gay that doesn't mean he wouldn't kill Ganondorf. He's not trying to kill him to marry zelda he's doing it to save hyrule(and all of the other countries he's in)

  7. @iceman
    So you are saying there should have been a gay storyline option in the settings menu where the princess is turned into a skinny jeans prince? Haha.

    This whole thing makes me think of Southpark's metrosexual episode. Good stuff.

    1. I honestly thought that's where the idea for Sheik was going. Think about it.

      Yeah, that metrosexual episode was great! My favorite line:

      Mr. Garrison: Why won't anybody pound Mr. Slave's butt?!

      Randy: Well, we don't "pound butt," Mr. Garrison, we're straight.

      Mr. Garrison: Those pants and those shoes say you pound butt!!

      Jimbo: Heeey, now that's not true. My shoes don't say I pound butt.

      Mr. Garrison: No, your shoes say you take it in the butt!!

      Classic.

      -M

  8. It's interesting that some of you feel that the dynamics of homosexual relationships are vastly different from the ones in hetersexual relationships. While I don't have direct experience with the matter, that's not what I've observed from gay friends and family. With that in mind, having a specifically gay storyline in Dragon Age II sounds silly to me.

  9. @Ray
    There's nothing like a woman. Hard to fathom otherwise. Like RROD said earlier, the opposite is pretty stomach churning at times.

  10. Honestly, I don't see the issue at all. It's the player's choice in something like 95% of the interactions, and you can blissfully ignore any unwanted advances in the game, or even openly tell them "hey, that's not my thing," at which point it ends. I think I find it particularly obnoxious that people have a problem with the idea of potential male homosexual relationships, but don't seem to care a lick about Isabella openly flirting with your character regardless of their gender. But then again if it's two girls, and that's a "turn on" for the same people who are uncomfortable with gay men having the right to choose to play the game they want to. Whatever. When I saw this nonsense last week I thought that David Gaider's response to this on the Bioware forums was pretty much perfect.

    1. I would imagine it's the stigma of the hero potentially being gay? IDK. After thinking it over a bit today I'm not so sure that I care for a romantic relationship aspect to be determined by the player in the game. That just seems too different than say making moral or immoral choices like in Bioshock.

      There are no shortage of homosexuals in the NOLA area, and they have a few blocks dedicated to that lifestyle on Bourbon Street..but I don't go there because it's not something I care to be exposed to. I really don't care how they live or who they live with. I don't think that makes a person intolerant.

      You brought up a good point with the hypocrisy of the people who don't mind the g2g.

      1. You think these same people would flip their lids if they found out that their favorite athlete was gay? I'd imagine that for some of our less accepting lot in this country, that would tarnish the hero image more so than if the same person shot someone.

        I mean, the ability to run a 4.4 40 or throw a 97 MPH fastball isn't limited to straight people…..

  11. The "ass"assin in DA:O hit on me and creeped me out, but that was my fault for having too much fun with his character. I don't blame Bioware for that and don't see why others should. You reap what you sow and I think it is awesome that Bioware has managed to hit a nerve with people over this. To me, that says they proved to people how their actions have consequences and those people didn't like the lesson they deserved.

      2. No no I'm completely fine with Rondo jokes. That one was pretty good. There's about a 100% chance I'm gonna steal that joke and use it in the very near future.

  13. Totally psyched for tonight's Raw. The episodes right before and after WrestleMania are usually stacked. Chicago pulls a great WWE crowd and it'll be awesome seeing The Rock vs. The Miz vs. Cena on the mic.

    1. DVR and put the Rock segments up on the site please. I won't be able to view it otherwise :*(

      1. I'll post the clips from WWE's YouTube channel. Here's an unofficial clip of The Miz impersonating The Rock. It was pretty awesome. He had the mannerisms down pat.

        <object width="550" height="339"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/ulItYALn3zo?fs=1&hl=en_US&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/ulItYALn3zo?fs=1&hl=en_US&rel=0&quot; type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="550" height="339"></embed></object>

      2. Yeah he did ok there. Man I miss the Attitude Era. MIz and Cena are just not headliners to me. They lack "it".

  14. I have absolutely zero issue with homosexuality being in the game. In fact, I found it rather hilarious that Anders does hit on you. What I don't really understand is the whole uproar about it. It's a choice in the game, one made quite obvious by the little heart that appears in the dialog window. If you find it interesting, you choose it, and if you don't, then you don't. Same as Life. If it's not for you, it's not for you, but it's completely pointless to be insulted.

    While I haven't rolled a character to "roll" with Anders (or Fenris for that matter) I do have a female Hawke that found love with Isabela. I also have a female Shepard that started a relationship, and remained faithful, with Liara in Mass Effect.

    1. Our opinions are pretty similar on this issue. I don't get why gamers are so angry about it considering that it has to be an active choice in the game in order for it to proceed.

  16. Another WWE Raw *spoiler*!!!

    This is what John Cena dresses like now

    And this is what Chuck E. Cheese dresses like now

Comments are closed.