Welcome to Coffee Talk! Let’s start off the day by discussing whatever is on your (nerd chic) mind. Every morning I’ll kick off a discussion and I’m counting on you to participate in it. If you’re not feelin’ my topic, feel free to start a chat with your fellow readers and see where it takes you. Whether you’re talking about videogames, Victor Ortiz’ excellent win over Andre Berto, when CC Sabathia will get his first win, or Chris Klein confirmed for the next American Pie sequel, Coffee Talk is the place to do it.
While I was listening to David Jaffe talk about Twisted Metal last week, a journalist mumbled, “Sony should just cancel this franchise.” I thought the comment was rude and inappropriate. I’m also positive that the journalist didn’t say that to Jaffe during his on-camera interview. That said, his words stuck in my head. Are there gaming franchises that should be given the Old Yeller treatment?
Personally I’m against killing any established brand — even if it has been run into the ground. One of the things I’ve learned from comic books is that the right creators can revive any franchise. Hell, Kevin Smith made Green Arrow cool — a comic book about a rich guy with an Errol Flynn fascination, bad facial hair, and no superhuman powers.
What do you think? Are there any videogame franchises that should just be killed? Any sequels that make you go, “Please! For the love of God just stop!!!”
Twisted Metal (never liked this series)
Sonic (worse and worse)
Madden (doesn't try to be good anymore)
CoD (for god sakes release an online MP sku only at least)
Final Fantasy (they get worse and worse)
Sonic Colors was actually pretty good. Disagree on FF also. XIII was good — certainly a lot better than XII. I liked X better than VII, VIII, and IX.
@Ray
Disagree on all fronts there. FF9 was the last good entry
Few would agree with you that IX was better than X and XII was better than XIII. Very few. Certainly nobody I know in the gaming businesses.
X was better than IX, XII or XIII in my opinion. And even though VIII is my favorite game in the franchise, I would never pretend X wasn't a better game. XII was pretty abysmal in my opinion, and XIII was so/so. I didn't really buy into either story (though the story in XIII was superior to XII), or the gameplay mechanics of either game.
VII and VIII we both better than IX. I thought IX was the weakest of the FF games on the PS1 in regards to story. I has to force myself to keep playing once I hit the 3rd disc (on the second attempt. I gave up the first time I tried to play it through). That being said, the wife and I were introduced at our reception to the FFIX battle music.
<——–nerd
@Nightshade
If FFX were PS1 visuals or even PS2 visuals then we'd be saying it was on par with 9 marginally. I think 9 had the better story compared to X. Both were kind of labor intensive when leveling up characters since you needed to actively use them.
Agreed on VII and VIII
I disagree. X was better than IX story wise in my opinion. There was nothing memorable to me about IX's story, with the exception of the one cutscene where all the black mages are falling from the sky. There weren't any throw away characters – explain Quena and Amarant to me? Please? They're both Cait Sith-esque in their lack of usefulness and high annoyance factor. The ability to swap characters mid combat in X was a big addition – one I wish they'd kept for future iterations. Swap a character in and just defend for a round and you'd get full XP, not nearly as labor intensive to level up as you imply. The sphere grid system was a departure for the franchise, but I really liked it since it created well defined roles for the characters, but allowed them to branch out whatever way the player wanted them to. Having the summons actually join in battle as opposed to simply watching a cutscene for the 507th time was a vast improvement.
I could go on, but you get the point. We're not going to agree on this one.
Just having this discussion is making me want to pop in X and play it.
Since we were talking about this, I just pulled out FFX and put it in. I also pulled out the strategy guide, within which I found a full typed page of blitzball team-building tips, and critical breakdowns of each team in the game that I typed up for my wife (I had completely forgotten I had done this) beacuse she loved this game but hated the blitzball because she couldn't figure it out. I seem to recall her really getting into it after I'd done this. I find this all a little funny in retrospect, as it's probably the closest I've ever come to writing an F.A.Q..
Haha enjoy
@Ray
Your people in the gaming business are not the only opinions that matter nor do they carry more weight than John Q Gamer to me. This extends back to the overhyped coffee talk. I think the gaming press and those in the business think too highly of themselves when it comes to their takes on the games.
Disagree all you want. FF has gone down hill since FF8. FFX was "ok". FF12 garbage. FF13 not an improvement.
It's not just inside the business. X is considered great by most people. For whatever reason, you don't want to acknowledge that.
For whatever reason I have decided that X is decidedly overrated. Nightshade gave examples of why he thought the game was better than 9. His stances are his own and fair to be honest. This is coming down to a relative like or dislike. X had some pretty horrible characters to me. As much as 9 was a decline, its characters stood out more.
I honestly think part of X's pass for most people is that it was pretty at the time.
Also calling 12 better than 13 really isn't helping you out there. That's like saying this one pile of crap smells a bit better than that pile of crap. hehe
Well you said said the series keeps getting worse and worse. If the vast majority of gamers think that XIII is better than XII then you're wrong.
Now wait a minute. Before you were talking about an entire franchise, and now only the two most recent entries count? Sure with that style or argument you can win plenty of ridiculous disputes. Smartguy's comparison before is more accurate—just because XIII is better than XII doesn't mean that XII is an acceptable judge of the franchise. In this sort of comparison you have to examine the franchise as a whole and determine the OVERALL quality of the franchise and where it is headed. There can still be a steady rate of decline in the franchise as a whole even if XIII is better than XII. You would have to plot a rough diagram detailing the quality of each of the games in the franchise (with the highpoint being somewhere around VII or VIII from an outsider's perspective) and if each of the games past the peak of VII or VIII were consistently worse than the peak of the franchise the series as a whole would be considered to be in a decline. For your argument to be valid and correct XIII would have to have surpassed the quality of VII or VIII for the franchise to be considered to NOT be in a decline of quality. This does not seem to be the case though (again from an outsider's perspective) when I still see more people talking about how they preferred some of the older games in the franchise, somewhere around VII or VIII.
The debate should not be about whether XIII is better than XII or not—that whole discussion is a moot point if the majority of people seem to favor older games in the franchise. Just because a newer game is an acceptable game in the series does not mean it is a high point in the quality of the series as a whole. New and different is not always better, it is simply different. From what I have seen of people here, and in plenty of other sites, is that the best game in the franchise is somewhere around games VII or VIII with other games being ok, but not as good. If that is wrong, well I'm not a FF fan and I cannot comment on the quality of any of these games.
@Ray
Hardly. How many of these gamers beat 12 and 13? An RPG is something you see to the end if you like it. I honestly can't say I've met anyone or talked to anyone who has beat both of those games (not for a review either). Maybe Sandrock and You have.
Vast majority? Metacritic? 12 and 13 were both bad and you seriously missed the point of my comment there.
Admittedly, I couldn't finish XII. After the 3rd time I feel asleep during a battle and "the game" won the fight for me, I turned it off for good.
I can't decide if the reason I don't like Fenris in DA2 is because he's a jerk, or if it's because I keep hearing Balthier from FFXII and my subconscious is just rejecting it due to how much I hated that game.
I understood your point just fine. I just think it's wrong. I understand if you don't like modern FF games, but you've done nothing to illustrate that the games are getting worse. You're kind of a weird RPG fan — don't like FF, don't like BioWare.
I have to agree. Who in their right mind can honestly say a game is good when someone tells you that it takes 20+ hours to get into it. Prior to that XIII is cut-scene, walk ten steps to another cut-scene, walk 12 steps, oh look a cut-scene. The game should have been in the VIDEO section and NOT the video game section.
I think that 20+ hours "to get into it" for FFXIII isn't quite accurate. It takes 20+ hours to open up and not feel extremely linear (in this case, the maps are somewhat reminiscent of the trench run from Star Wars in some places). But linearity on it's own is not necessarily a bad thing. The thing is, the average FF fan is going to say "This isn't Final Fantasy. There are no towns. There's no areas to explore. Etc." But if you judge it on it's own qualities rather than what you expect it to be, it's an ok game.
My bigger issues with the game revolved around the gameplay and the main plot. The subplots of each of the 6 characters were much stronger than the main plot of the game in my opinion. At the end of the day, I couldn't have cared less about who I was fighting and why, and that was a flaw in the story design IMHO. And the gameplay was designed to be frantic (which in itself is not bad), and as such the limited control you have over the game becomes kinda moot as you end up missing turns if you try to pick out your own actions rather than just hitting the autobattle button.
And I would say VIII was.
Damn, I really have to play the other FF games that are sitting on my shelf right now collecting dust.
Even though I have FF 1 through 12, I've only played up to VIII. I have yet to bring myself to start up another epic FF game that will take me months to beat.
I just don't have the time I used to when I was younger to put into those games.
-M
But I like the Crystal Chronicles series of Final Fantasy games and they keep getting better.
Ones I used to enjoy but I have started to hate either because they suck now or because I am tired of seeing them:
Sonic
Mario
Call of Duty
Final Fantasy
Metal Gear Solid
Grand Theft Auto
Tony Hawk
Need For Speed
Zelda
Dragon Age
Halo
The Sims
Guitar/Rock….anything
Street Fighter
Mortal Kombat
God of War
Medal of Honor
Sports games with annual releases
Duke Nukem
Megaman
Pokemon
Tomb Raider
Kane & Lynch
Devil May Cry
Dynasty Warriors
They don't need to go away, but they do need to dial it back a bit or at the least put out something quality for a change.
FABLE also
You sure you still like games? :P
Lol that is lengthy.
Lately I am not sure I like games at all. Each time I pick up a game I get bored with it very rapidly. I hate that too. I used to love playing for hours on end. Lately it seems more of a chore to play games. The most fun I have now is playing various Trivia games.
Seriously man, maybe take a few months off and come back to it. Sounds like you're burnt out.
3D Sonic Games. 2D sonic works just fine.
Pokemon. It just needs something big, something new. AR, maybe?
Guitar Hero, Rock Band, Band Hero, etc… Just stop. Or make better drums.
Call of Duty. It's getting worse. I liked Black Ops's story mode, though.
Metroid. The more recent Metroid game, Other M, isn't all that good. Just go back to 2D, please.
Franchises that have been milked beyond comprehension:
Pokemon, Mario, Sonic, Legend of Zelda, Madden/FIFA/etc.
These are franchises that just need something new. Pokemon needs to somehow revamp its games, as the overall format hasn't changed even after 5 seasons. Mario has more games than I can count, though the more recent ones are pretty good (Galaxy 2, anyone?). I didn't see anything wrong with Sonic until that one "7 Rings" game for Wii, and then I reinforced my opinion when I rented Sonic: Unleashed and beat it in 2 days. 2D sonic needs to come back (not just the occasional Sonic the Hedgehog 4, 5, 6. Everything except Sonic Adventure must go). Legend of Zelda has been pulling all the stops lately, and I hope Skyward Sword is good; just don't fail me now. And I don't even need to tell you why the yearly sports games need to stop. You get the point.
Please kill COD, Dynasty Warriors, Resident Evil (games or movies, you pick), Test Drive, GTA, all of EA's yearly sporting game updates, Tony Hawk, and Halo.
LOL. I actually enjoy the RE movies.
Lol HOW???? JK I did like like 1st movie the 1st time I saw it.
So you enjoy the RE movies…but you're sick of Zelda?
Yep. I think its mainly a Milla Jovovich thing though.
I haven't liked Zelda in WAY TOO LONG. Last Zelda game I liked was A Link to the Past on SNES. I bought Windwaker, but I hated it. Haven't played one since the Gamecube (hated that entire system mostly due to the controller being too small)
CoD is one that I don't like too much due to it's repetitive nature, but I'm not sure I would really want the franchise to go away. I've only ever liked IW's games, not Treyarch's so for me it's like they come out every two years.
I was glad to see Guitar Hero stop being made because I was tired of playing those games. They are still fun, but that's something I'd really only play again with a group of people. I would have just preferred that they release new songs as DLC instead of a whole new game, for as much as I don't always like DLC.
Sports series are, again, games that I don't want to see ended but I would rather see them distributed in a different way. Other people have suggested online updates each season—I think that's something I could support.
This is a hard one to digest, but I think Tony Hawk needs to realize its time is up and that other similar games are more popular (read: Shaun White and Skate).
I still like a lot of the staple franchises. Mario, Zelda, GTA, Pokemon, Tomb Raider, Crash Bandicoot, Halo, MGS, etc. Actually one I haven't seen for a while is Spyro, and I wouldn't mind playing another one of those games sometime.
Tony Hawk.
I think we are unanimous in that Tony Hawk game need to die lol. I throw Cooking Mama under the train too. Seriously, people need to stop buying all these shovel ware games. Lately, I've been thinking that there needs to be a video game art appreciation class made available in collage as an art credit. Something to educate the idiot consumers of this nation.
Yeah, I used to have a "hit-list" of gaming franchises that needed to be assassinated (Sonic was at the top of that list by far), but then I had a revelation.
It is not so much the franchise, but what the people behind it do (much like you said, Mr. Padilla).
I remember back in the 80's, Spiderman didn't really do much for me. In all honesty, I thought it was pretty lame comic. It took Todd McFarlane to really bring be into the fold and make a Spider-fan out of me. Then the "Scarlet Spider" saga hit and I buried my interest in the series in a six-foot grave, cremated the comics, and spread their ashes behind a church to ward off any evil that may attempt to resurrect that monstrosity. Later, Ultimate Spiderman came along and made a fan again, but I was smart enough to realize this time around not to be a Spider-fan, but rather a Brian Bendis fan. That's when everything changed for me and I found out that it is way better to follow a writer/artist, etc., instead of the actual hero that the book portrays. My top three favorite are now Bendis, Alex Ross and Peter David. I will literally buy anything those guys publish, regardless of what the subject is about.
So, I think video games are the same way. You just have to find developer(s) you like and follow the projects that they are doing and go with that instead of the franchise. Sure, it's not a foolproof plan since that developer can try something different from time to time, but it's better than the alternative.
That said, I have awesome ideas for a Sonic game that is beyond anything Team Sonic could ever dream of. I also have great ideas about a new type of inventive Zelda game and a few others. Unfortunately for you guys (and other gamers), those ideas will never bear fruit as I have no way of getting a hold of those franchises and bringing out their true potential.
The people who handle the franchises are the ones directly responsible for bad/good sequels of the games you love (or used to love), not the IP itself or inanimate object.
-M
Dude… tell me you've read Preacher.
The DC comic series? I've vaguely heard about it, but I haven't read any of it. Why? Should I have?
-M
@ ICEMAN
Did you get my XBL message?
Blg Blak;
Yeah, man, I got your message. I'll send you a text later on tonight when I'm leaving work so we can hook up online later tonight if that's cool with you… unless you want to watch the Celtics/Knicks game. In which case, we can hold off until after the game or Wednesday.
Which do you prefer?
-M
Alright, I wanted to make sure that you didn't hate me lol. Honestly that is a tough call to make right now. Just hit me up and we'll see.
It's fantastic. Preacher is one of the best series from the '90s.
Well, in that case, I'm going to have to read the series. I'll get on that right after I finish Ultimatum. (Yes, I'm even further behind on comics than I am with video games)
-M
Had a nice chat with Blair Herter about digital comics on the iPad. He said it took him a month to adjust to digital comic-book reading. We have similar habits of wanting to flip back to reexamine certain panels or bits of text. I think I'll give digital comics a shot since he loves them, but admitted that it took him time to adjust.
Yes.. the DC comics series. It's incredible.
Get dropbox and shoot me an email with the address you used to sign up for dropbox with.
With your religious fascinations, Preacher is directly up your alley.
Tomb Raider
I think Tomb Raider is the prime example of a franchise that could easily be fixed. Start with better camera angles when climbing, and take some cues from Uncharted's gunplay.
Funny you mention it…
I was talking to my brother a few months ago about Uncharted 2 which I thought he might like but had never heard of the series (he's really in to quality games, but doesn't follow them like we do). His exact quote after me basically describing the premise of Uncharted 2 was "They don't try to Lara Croft you to death in it?".
My answer was that the climbing and platforming was more like the Prince of Persia or Assassin's Creed games.
HOWEVER… the first Tomb Raider game I played was TR2 and it literally took me a year to beat it. Not because it was TOO difficult or because I couldn't find the time that particular year, but because I would get too frustrated with certain parts, turn off my PS1, turn on my 64, and play wrestling games instead.
At these moments, I'd think "F**k that game… I'm done with it." BUT… I would find my self craving the gameplay style of timing and accuracy it had and I would find myself thinking about how to get past where I was at n my spare time.
After I finally beat that game, I felt accomplished as all hell. I immediately went out and bought TR3 (which had been out for a while by then) and beat it in a day or 2.
So… my honest opinion, the TR series is just incapable of recapturing the magic that TR2 had. Much like how Fallout New Vegas just doesn't have that same spark of freshness that Fallout 3 had. I think in the case of GTA, GTA3 blew me away when it dropped (as it probably did most of us). Vice City added many elements and the writing was better. San Andreas had MANY improvements yet the writing wasn't as good. However, considering the number of copies out there and the percentage of people who had gripes about it… it's still easily one of the greatest games of all time. GTA4 jumped to the next technology, focused on graphical details, bumped up the quality of writing, but made a plotline no-one cared about. They also failed to step up the gameplay. And the made Nico inconsistent in his character which got lost on trying to identify with him.
All that said… I still think new writing and creative direction could solve any problems I stated.
Nothing… revamp them all for all I care… just needs to be done right like RPad said.
The thing with Madden… is that the core gameplay hasn't changed in 20 years. We need a new way to play football games.
GTA… come on guys. I think the writers just need to get less comical and more gritty with the plot details. I'm interested to see how LA Noire unfolds.
@N8
The 'realism' of the 4 made me not like it. I found myself playing tons more of Saints Row 2 than GTA. Vice City has truly been the last GTA game i enjoyed playing (The 80s music helped).
The realism of 4 made it much more appealing to me. It was the poor driving and gunplay mechanics in a game titled "Grand Theft Auto" that made me stop playing.
@GTA4
Yeah the gunplay where you are supposed to aim and steer at the same time while accelerating is retarded as shit. I hate those damn missions. I tend to just run my car into the target if possible.
I thought San Andreas was their best outing. Hard to top that one. I'm not sure if they ever will.
I couldn't stand San Andreas. I know everyone else loved it, but I just didn't care for it. I was in love with GTA 3 and VC, hell I even have all of the original GTAs and love them (top down views).
I think I liked SA so much because it was the west coast version of the game. I enjoyed having a car load of gangsters blaring rap and shooting ppl. I also liked how you could influence the way your character looked by working out and going to the barber.
I never could decide if I liked the Big Worm style of gangster or the prison cut gangster with a fro.
Agree about the poor driving.
I'm comparing it to Mafia 2. I don't recall a quarter as many "comic relief" moments in Mafia 2 as was in GTA4.
I think they need to break it down to the core, focus on gameplay, and keep the story simple and gritty.
Mafia 2 was pretty good. It didn't even feel comparable to GTA. Thinking about it though it should have been similar. But I thoroughly enjoyed Mafia 2 and I can't give 1 good reason why I did.
Searching for playboys always helps though. lol
The things I can think of that made it different:
Mafia 2 had linear gameplay where GTA4 was open world.
The time periods (as a history nerd, I love searching for historical inaccuracies. Mafia 2… had songs on the radio that hadn't been released later than the years it was set. However… it didn't put me off because the music was GREAT!)
The storyline of Mafia 2 was at least interesting.
Your character had a consistent personality.
Going on a crazed rampage in Mafia 2 wasn't as fun as it was in GTA4.
… just to name a few.
@BB
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81f51185/ar…
Hillis v Vick for the Madden cover now. Last 2 standing.
I stand corrected.
Who do you think will win? I'm voting Hillis. The guy was a fantasy stud this past year and it seems Madden has more in common with a fantasy game than an actual football game. Vick was a beast as well…but he's already been on the cover. Go Hillis.
I hate it, but I think Vick will win. I think enough people are enamored with his numbers and the "redemption story" that they'll make it happen. But then again, I guess him being on the cover improves the chances of him getting hurt of having an "off year" (can you have an "off year" when you've only had one good one?), which helps my G-Men.
I have not read Preacher. I think I will now though ;)
Wow just got a special brownie from a co worker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You work with Michael Phelps?!
-M
:)
portal needs to go, i mean look at these reviews for part 2
http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/port…
HAHAHA! I thought you were serious.
@Ray
Of course I like FF. I dislike bad FF games. I just beat ME2 and thought it good. ME1 and KoToR had the horrid dialog wheel.
The games are getting worse indeed. Maybe you are too biased to admit it? I think you are quite biased with Bioware.
I love Blizzard. I know about being biased.
No, I'm not too biased to admit it. I'm very much aware of my personal biases and able to separate them from criticisms. That's something you should have noticed.
I don't think you like FF anymore. X is not a bad game. XIII is not a bad game. The way you talk about them, they're horrid. That's absolutely not the case. This isn't a binary system.
FF VIII is horrid.
-M
I've never understood this criticism from some FF fans. FFVIII is my favorite game in the series.
Some gamers hate VIII because it's not VII. They're both varying degrees of good.
Yeah, I know. I also think that because VII was the entry point in the series for so many people, they were probably expecting a direct sequel and not a whole new world and a whole new cast of characters. Either way, I don't get the sentiment.
I myself and the people I know would say that VII or VIII is the best of the series. I think most people would agree with that, but I could be wrong.
You and I are on completely different wavelengths when it comes to that atrocity of a game, then.
-M
@Ray
12 and 13 are bad. No amount of you telling me how wrong I am, disconnected, etc is going to change that. Did you beat 13 btw? I'm curious. OF course it isn't a binary system…but if you are basing their perceived quality on more than your personal experience then that isn't a valid way to do it. CoD sells by the boatload, that doesn't make it a quality title.
9 began the downward slope. X had a mediocre story but better mechanics than 9. 12 and 13 fell in both of those areas.
You are right. I stopped liking FF after I beat X. They are selling console games on the laurels of their past success. Besides, it's not like I hate them. I did buy the FF games on iOS and FF4 for my DS. So me being a FF hater isn't going to fly. Their newer games are just getting bad. That happens. Time to move on.
So just to clarify…because I am saying that the games since 9 are going downhill (which Nightshade says after X ) I am wrong because you and other ppl enjoyed them? That hardly makes me wrong. That makes the people who like 12 and 13 either very partial to pretty colors or very forgiving in the quality of a game that will reasonably take 30 hours to complete.
I get what you're saying and I understand your point of view, but you're kinda putting words in my mouth there Smartguy. I do think they're kind of flailing for the right formula in a changing RPG landscape, and I don't think either formula of the last two SP titles hit the mark ( I really wish the MMO titles had their own numbering system). But XII was a much bigger miss than XIII IMHO. Much bigger. I gave FFXIII a 7.5 when I was writing for the old site. That's hardly a score you give to a game that's total crap, but it's not a score you give to a great game either. Like I said, it's kinda so/so. It has good points and bad points. I have a hard time thinking of things I like about XII.
Your point of view about each game is absolutely justified, because ultimately if you don't like something it doesn't matter that the rest of the world does – you don't have to like it. But you lose me when you say that everyone who likes FFXIII is wrong.
Again, I get that you don't like X, XII, and XIII. XII was a huge disappointment for me, but I know what happened during the game's development and the results reflect that. While it was disappointing, I'd hardly classify it as "bad".
You continuing to say XIII is bad without saying anything to support is amusing. The game received hundreds of good scores from critics and thousands of good scores from gamers on sites like Gamerankings and Metacritic. You continue to say it's bad, but math says otherwise. There are many things wrong with the game, but it's not bad.
I played through most of XIII and my friend at Gamasutra showed me the last 90 minutes of the game. How much of it did you play?
To clarify, you're wrong because you said, "they get worse and worse". That might be true for you personally, but there's lot of evidence that says otherwise.
I think we're at a standstill here since you can't admit that modern FF games are good.
I did see that Ortiz fight and i thought Berto was going to kill him. A couple of my friends mentioned that he should fight Pacquiao next. I laughed at them and told them Manny would destroy Victor. Berto had his chances but never landed clear punches on some exchanges, if he would've i think Victor would've quit. I don't like him, Victor, to be honest. I was put off by his comment when he quit a fight because he didn't want to get hurt and go out on his shield. where i immediately thought why are you a professional boxer!?!?
metacritic scores for all ff games
ff 7–92
ff 8–90
ff 9–94
ff10–92
ff11–85
ff12–92
ff-13–83
i think the moral of the story is that final fantasy is one of those games that critics seem to enjoy, because they “supposed to”…no way in hell is ff9 the best of the group, and no way in hell is ff12 a 92…just sayin
they ARE supposed to…sorry
btw, everytime i try to go to metacritic, i mistakenly type in MEATcritic.com
maybe its a freudian thing? i hope not…
Speaking of Metacritic, anyone see the gaping disparity between the Portal 2 Critical reviews and the user reviews?
That happens with almost every exclusive and every multi plat in which one version is "superior" to the other.