Welcome to Coffee Talk! Let’s start off the day by discussing whatever is on your (nerd chic) mind. Every morning I’ll kick off a discussion and I’m counting on you to participate in it. If you’re not feelin’ my topic, feel free to start a chat with your fellow readers and see where it takes you. Whether you’re talking about videogames, Ozzy Osbourne hosting Monday Night Raw, Apple possibly getting into subscription television, or the French press vs. drip machine debate, Coffee Talk is the place to do it.
Prior to this console generation, Sony was the undisputed king of console controllers. Then out of nowhere (at least, that’s how it seemed to me), the Xbox 360 controller took the throne. Personally, I don’t get it. I love the shape of the Dual Shock, prefer its more precise analog sticks, and hate the d-pad on the 360 controller. All that said, I understand why the Xbox 360 became so popular. It all started last console generation….
Shooters became prominent on consoles. Initially, shooter aficionados scoffed at the idea of playing with anything that wasn’t a mouse and keyboard. As consoles became more popular and PC gaming less popular, a lot of gamers begrudgingly lived out their World War II and space-marine fantasies on consoles. Eventually, the control schemes became better and more precise. A lot of shooter fans — especially Americans — preferred the larger Xbox and Xbox 360 controllers for shooting.
The Type-S controller for the original Xbox is also worth mentioning. The original Xbox controller was a giant piece of crap. The Type-S was much, much better — especially for shooters. The Xbox 360 pad is a nice evolution of the Type-S. Sony’s Dual Shock 3, on the other hand, isn’t much of a progression from the Dual Shock 2. Some, myself included, will argue that the company was right not to stray from an already excellent design. Others will say that Microsoft’s advancements give it an edge. I guess there’s something to be said about going to crap (original Xbox controller) to very good (Xbox 360 pad).
Anyway, I want to know which controller you prefer and why. Do you dig the small footprint and classic design of the Dual Shock 3? Or do you like the larger and more evolved Xbox 360 pad?
Wow…I just posted my thoughts on this in the heavy rain thread.
My quote: "I have to disagree with him about the controller though. Since the xbox type S controller came out, I prefer more space between the sticks and for them to be staggered. Maybe I’m just wired wrong, but there is no scenario where the PS controller has an advantage where the analog stick placement is concerned." Smartguy 11/3/09
GEAUX SAINTS. Can't stop the Crewe de'Drew!
What a game last night, huh guys?
I don't like the staggered sticks on the Xbox controller. I do like that it's bigger though. That's the only thing about the Xbox controller that's better than the PS3 controller. The PS3 has the better D-Pad. I'd hate to have to play Tekken 6 with that Xbox D-Pad.
I love everything about my dual shock controller. I prefer the spacing of the dual sticks, and the dpad is very responsive to whatever use a game may have for it. If I had any kind of complaint, it would be with the L2/R2 triggers. I think their design is kind of sketchy; I understand that they were made to act like a triggger, but the lack of support along the bottom often leads to me either not pushing it correctly when a quick button tap is required (the double tap or R2 for the auto-batclaw in B:AA) or slipping off while using it for driving (oh and who decided that the trigger buttons would become the new gas pedal?)
The first xbox controller was way to big and bulky, a truly monstrous pad and the reason I did not even have a passing interest in owning an xbox. The new type-s is actually a great improvement, I recently played through Mass Effect for my first time and was amazed at how easy it was to use. The bumper buttons need a bit of work on their responsiveness… but those triggers are where the design really shines.
@Larcenouslaugh
I bought those L2 and R2 cover thingies that you put over the L2 and R2 triggers to prevent finger slipping and they work great. They cost $5. Maybe you should try them.
the ps3 controller has become an extension of my hand at this point, ive been using the damn thing for damn near 15 years
I love the ps3 controller more because i grew up with it. I had an xbox last gen, because back in the philippines, ps2's were selling out. I like it, but for me, the best controlleres are the playstation's and the nintendo 64's. Playing goldeneye was a blast.
@smartguy
darren sharper is the man huh?
i missed him by 1 year at William and mary…and i missed mike tomlin by 4 years…would have loved to get a chance to blow up mike tomlin, he played wr
jk n8r, tomlin is the only reason i dont TOTALLY hate the steelers
Also, I love the fact that Sony made the PS3 controllers rechargeable out of the box. All you have to do is plug it up via USB. I have 2 controllers, I play with one while the other is plugged in. When the one I'm using goes low, I just switch them out and keep playing.
I got the God of War 3 demo yesterday at Gamestop, does anyone else have it?
@RROD – I saw those things but didn't think they would really do anything. If you're saying they work, I don't think $5 is a bad amount for an experiment. I'll give them a try this weekend.
I prefer the Gamecube controller, so the 360 one is a easy fit for me. PS controllers have always felt weird to me with the analog sticks attached to it. Also, L1 and R1 feel weird as well. Probably a spacing thing.
@rrod
dumb question of the day
how is the god of war 3 demo?
coffee talk trivia
in the movie pulp fiction, what is "the wolf"'s first name
@Larcenouslaugh
I think you will like them.
@Thundercracker
EPIC. Can't wait for the full version.
@sandrock – really? the gamecube controller? that thing was the weirdest of them all.
@RROD – good game indeed, sorry you guys couldn't take it but you will at home I bet
@topic – It's no secret one of the very reasons I buy 3rd party games on the Xbox is because I love the feel of the 360 controller, the sticks are spaced perfectly and the sticks have wonderful tension. I feel it is very difficult to do aiming with the PS3 controller. well, not necessarily difficult but less precise. I do think the Dpad on the 360 controller is just about the worst though. completely useless if you're playing a game that requires it.
What makes me mad is the lengths MS and Sony took to make sure their controllers were not compatible. they are practically PCs and a simple USB could make them interchangeable. Maybe if MS had wised up and actually gone with Bluetooth I would be enjoying more games on my PS3…. those clever bastards…
@Shockwave562
Weirdest, but most comfortable. The controller feels like it was made to be held. Weird how other controllers don't.
@Thunder
Mr.? Yeah Sharper is the man. I can't believe we got him. Hard to believe talent evaluation around the NFL missed that one.
@RROD
It was a typical Saints Falcons game. Roddy White is badass.
Controllers:
I prefer staggered when I have to use both sticks. The PS sticks are just too damn close. I equate it to the way I would use a PC is why I prefer the xbox stick layout. Think about it…left hand is on the keyboard that is typically higher up to use wasd keys while mouse hand on the right it a bit lower using the mouse. I guess it just feels natural.
I understand everyone saying that they grew up with the PS controller and that is why they like it, but you have to acknowledge improvements. Example..the SNES controller was great…but the Sega six button that came out later was a definite improvement. It had six buttons on the face plus the shoulder buttons. I loved my SNES, but Sega def made a better controller.
@shockwave
Nah, Saints take the game in Atl as well. Everything Atl needed to do to win they did, they couldn't do it though.
I for one might be a little biased though, I was saying back in 97 how I liked the N64 controller better than the PS controller. I guess I've just never liked the design of it. the triggers are as good as they've ever been but still not spot on. I'm sure glad they ditched the boomerang idea but I'd like to see some comfort in design.
After owning a PS, PS2, and PS3 I've definitely gotten used to the controller I just don't think it's the best
@Smartguy
Nah, we will win in the ATL.
I don't understand how staggered analog sticks are an improvement.
i kinda liked the dreamcast controller, because in madden you could call plays on your vmu thing and the other guy couldnt see the plays you were choosing from
@RROD, I think it's more the position that's naturally comfortable to me. it just feels like where my hands and thumbs should be. I've been using Sony controllers since I was pretty young but I adapted to this controller very quickly.
Of course I avoided using the sticks when I could back in the days when Sony introduced the joysticks on the PS1. The first time I ever thought two sticks were working together in amazing fashion was Halo CE
@thunder – ah yes the digi-pet/mini gameboy. that was the dumbest thing but I guess it did work for 2k sports. To my understanding EA never made a Madden for dreamcast, I could be wrong but I think EA shunning it was one of its downfalls.
talk about a monstrous controller
@RROD
In Atl Ellis will be back on the line. He wasn't in and Turner was able to exploit us. Won't be as easy next time. Barring injuries, it will be another good game.
Staggered is just better for me. Using triggers and having staggered sticks is quite comfortable and just a better design in my opinion. The PS controller makes me hold it uncomfortably to use both sticks and the triggers. It is my only complaint against UC2. I wish I could have a staggered stick controller. Maybe I'm just wired different. I don't think I am alone in my feelings though.
correct, EA and Sega didn't see eye to eye. EA didn't want to compete with Sega's sports franchise though.
@smartguy – exactly the reason I wish the controllers were interchangeable. I know some people will put a sony controller inside the 360 shell if you pay out some big cash but I'm not that hardcore
@Smartguy
We will have Norwood back by then.
Fair enough, to each his own about the sticks.
@shockwave
i knew someone was gonna correct me on that as soon as i hit submit
thanks for being that guy
kidding, but to be honest, the only controller that i trouble adjusting to was the ps1 to the n64…actually 3do to n64 was a pretty drastic switch as well
@RROD, definitely, everyone has different preferences when paying. I for one would like to see more diversity in 3rd party controller design. there are a lot of people out there who like to play on a controller they are comfortable with regardless of game system
@thunder – in retrospect the n64 controller is pretty awkward. it worked for it's time but even when I bust out my old 64 it feels so weird adjusting to it now.
The emulators I have on my PC work great with both my standard 2 stick controller and the 360 controller when I plug it in. goldeneye is a little awkward with a 2nd joystick instead of C buttons. it could have worked but the controls are the opposite of what I do now.
@Shockwave… that idea is entirely to mind-bottling (did you just say mind-bottling?).
@ Thunder – Winston sir. His first name was Winston.
@RROD
Gonna be a good one. Atl is better than their record suggests.
@Shockwave
Maybe Sony and M$ should allow their controllers to work with either system like Guitar Hero and Rock Band controllers work with each other. We know that will never happen though.
I tend to overall prefer the 360 controller. I couldn't say that about the original XBOX controller because it was too big and it had those ridiculous white and black buttons instead of the left and right bumpers. When the condensed the size some and then replaced those buttons with the bumpers it felt much more natural.
I prefer my controller to have triggers because I do play a lot of FPS's. I just don't like the PS controller for those types of games because pushing the R2 button instead of pulling the RT just doesn't feel right. I also prefer my controller to have a little heft to it, and the PS controller is too light for my tastes.
Also, the positioning of the Left Analog Stick on the 360 controller feels better to me overall. We've all been trained over the years that that is the natural position for the pad/stick that controls character movement. So now that most games use the analog stick for movement instead of the d-pad, the PS controller feels wrong to me.
That being said I'm not a big fighting game fan, but I can see the attraction of the PS controller to those types of players. The d-pad is used more in those types of games, and the positioning of the d-pad on the PS controller is more suited to those types of games.
Ultimately with everything video game related, it comes down to personal choice and taste.
@larcenous
i was starting to think no one was gonna guess
harvey keitel is awesome, though im sure i misspelled his name
@nightshade – what's weird is that a lot of PS3 shooting games actually use R1 instead of the trigger to shoot.
FPS or not a lot of games have guns and include some sort of aiming
@RROD, ya, I dream, lol
Yeah, so when I started typing, I wasn't planning on writing a 6 page dissertation on the subject. It just kinda happened. lol.
What's the worst controller?
I'm gonna go with Dreamcast. Damn VMU beeping, the cord was on the BOTTOM of the controller (stupid design) one analog stick, and the triggers were to far in.
Close second: Wii Mote. At least you can turn it sideways to play games. Pointing at my tv for more than ten minutes is ridiculous.
@Shockwave: Yeah, that's even weirder than using the R2 button for it. And I agree, I really wish there was a 3rd party controller that emulated the 360 controller for the PS3 and vice versa.
@Nightshade386
All shooters that I know of use R1 to shoot. What shooters use R2 or RT?
@RRoD: Every shooter on the 360 uses the RT (Right Trigger).
@Thunder – nope you spelled it correctly.
@Nightshade
Oh. They all use R1 on the PS3.
@RRoD Yeah, that just wouldn't feel right to me at all.
my votes for worst controller are the dreamcast and Xbox version 1. The S was better but the lack of bumpers sucked.
I know sandrock liked it but the gamecube is one of my votes for worst. the c-button joystick was awkward and the button layout didn't seem to make sense at all. leave it to nintendo to be different than the rest
@Shockwave: Nintendo hasn't had a decent controller since the SNES.
r2 and l2 are used on cod4, for grenades and whatnot, but not for firing
lets say i have accidentally thrown a flash grenade once or twice
@thunder – haha I do that all the time even on Xbox in COD
well I guess metacritic is good for something. I can easily find lots of reviews for Dragon Age. overall the reception sounds amazing. I just need to decide on PC or 360 fast. there are so many good reasons to play this on the PC. but I do love the convenience of my couch and big screen tv. I'm sure I'm just going to stare at the two copies at best buy for awhile
@Shockwave: I'm leaving in about 20 minutes to pick up my copy! I preordered it for my 360 because my PC's so old it barely handles minesweeper. HA!
You win again Minesweeper… damn this podunk graphics card!
lol @ LarcenousLaugh…..
when i play minsweeper, i like to envision myself in the jeff daniels role from the movie speed…lots of concentration, lots of indecsion, lots of sweating
@nightshade – I think I'm going to do the same. in about a year when all the mods are in full force I might pick up the PC version and play through again. Bioware delivers replay value like Oreo does cookies
I preferred the Larger Less Evolved Xbox controller. The S-type controller is for girls with small hands. I am more used to the baby controller now, but when I heard they were discontinuing the Mantroller I went out and bought 3 more. Now it makes now difference since MS doesn't support that console anymore, Thanks again for the shaft MS.
Lately I don't really notice the controller since I only play my PS3 anymore (except L4D)
@SlickyFats – The Mantroller… rofl.
@minesweeper – I was one of the few I bet that never really figured that game out. Even on the easiest setting, I was more often then not setting myself up for disappointment and explosions then actually successfully sweeping for mines. If real mine sweeping were anything like this game, I would not be the guy to test the system for you.
@larcenous – Once I figured out what the numbers meant Minesweeper got a whole lot easier
Minesweeper is fun once you figure out what the numbers mean, how to use the flags, and the different mouse clicks.
I love the PS3 controller, it helps that it hasn't really changed since its inception. My only gripe is when I set the controller down, or accidentally bump it I inevitably hit either L2 or R2 and generally its when I am facing a wall and that button is linked to a grenade.
speaking of grenades
UNCHARTED 2 SPOILER ALERT
REPEAT
UNCHARTED 2 SPOILER ALERT
why does that dude blow himself up at the end of uncharted? the crazy dude just shot him and he tries to blow up the people who are going to kill the person who just shot him?
speaking of spoilers
i have intentionally not watched the spoiler video of mw2, if any of you ruin that for me, i will physically kill you
@Thunder – there are a couple of moments in the story that really take you out of the game to say "wait, what?" it's unfortunate because it's such an immersive game that it's a bummer when you get pulled out so abruptly. that part was a big one for me
@thundercracker
I'll dispose of the bodies when you're done. Just don't expect a cut when I sell them.
@Smartguy I prefer the sticks being on the same level. More importantly, I prefer the Dual Shock 3's precision.
@Thundercraker Winston.
@Ray
I am way imprecise with a DS3. Something about the sticks being right next to one another.
I'm on an even plain about the controller thing. I really have no preference. Lately, I've been trying to play Tomb Raider on my Mac with a mouse and keyboard… that, I'm not used to. Totally adds to the challenge.
@ Thundercracker
I'm actually still adjusting to Tomlin from Cowher. You guys never should have given up Mike Mularky.
@ RROD
Back me up about Mike Mularkey.
@smartguy. I'm with you on precision
@Smartguy The DS3 just has more precise analog controls. This has been measured. The Xbox 360 pad has a bigger dead zone — an area of movement where nothing registers.
@ RPad
Like a Christopher Walken Dead Zone, or an Anthony Michael Hall Dead Zone?
@N8R Ha! That's a tough one…both are fantastic entertainers for completely different reasons.
@rpad, maybe it's that precision that's throwing me off. many times in games like KZ2 or Uncharted I feel like the aiming can be overly sensitive to aiming. I'll sometimes pass the reticle by an enemy 2 or 3 times before I put the target on him.
I'm sure I could probably turn the sensitivity down on games though
@Ray
I believe you. It's my own deadzone when it comes to stick placement though.
@73 – "I feel like the Joystick** can be overly sensitive"
@Smartguy Yeah, I totally get that. I'm the opposite way. If the analog sticks aren't aligned, it throws me off. I've gotten better with it since the 360, but it took a lot of time.
@Shockwave562 Ha! You should be careful with the joystick jokes. For some reason, my Ric Flair story from yesterday got linked to a lot of American twink and European gay dating sites. I'm happy to get more readers, but I wasn't really expecting much play from the twink community.
@Rpad, lol, fair enough. I think we can do worse
@ R Pad
You say this AFTER you ask us to compare joysticks.
@N8R, lol
@N8R – well played sir. I think I am going to go ahead and hide my framed Asia poster.
@Shockwave562 I have to admit that I'm biased against twinks. One of my closest friends is a bear, so I have to side with those guys. It's like Autobots and Decepticons.
@N8R Gotcha!!!
@N8R
Mike Mularky is awesome. I'm afraid that we will lose him soon as he's being considered for head coaching jobs.
i don't know what a twink is outside of WoW context
@ RROD
That's why we lost him. He went to the Bills to be the Head Coach but didn't realize that the main problem with the Bills is the same problem with the 49ers, the Raiders, and the Rams… the front office is full of d-bags. They don't understand that a good dynasty takes time to build.
I still remember Mularky as Inspector Gadget.
@smartguy – I had to look it up on Urban Dictionary
@Smartguy I live in San Francisco for a long time. You need to know this, similar to how you need to know the Crips and Bloods in Los Angeles.
The fetish that goes completely over my head are the furries. People that believe they are animals. I met this one guy who thought he was a squirrel. He had a fake tail and nibbled his food. They even have conventions. My thoughts were:
1) This is just an elaborate excuse to poop on someone's floor.
2) I feel bad for the guy who thinks he's a sloth or a dung beetle.
3) Why do they all wear clothes? It makes no sense.
@N8R
Please tell me you are joking.
@ Smartguy
No joke… google them, they exist.
There was a convention in Pittsburgh during the fourth of July. The main fireworks at the point were flooded with them. Most of them think they are cats.
@N8R I know a few furries, including one that goes to the conventions. Hey, it takes different strokes to move the world.
@Nate
The furries episode of CSI is awesome.
People get off on some crazy stuff. I dont begrudge them it, just dont ask me to put on a $1500 rabbit costume and get all crazynuts on you.
@ R Pad
That "different strokes" comment can be taken completely out of context based on the subject matter.
@ Sandrock
I never watched CSI. I've only seen the real deal people. I'm more of a Law & Order person.
And… I am no expert on furries. They just crack me up.
@N8R
Wow. I wonder if that guy who altered his body to become a cat is a furry?
Which Law and Order? I like the original.
@ Smartguy
I haven't been able to get in to the original since the original cast departed (pardon the pun). SVU has always been my favorite out of all of them. That show is screwed up.
That dude was most definitely a furry.
I haven't liked it since Jerry Orbach left. I tried a year or two ago and the new ADA was crap. Show is dead to me.
Long live Netflix and Dexter.
Jerry Orbach died (hence the bad "departed" pun). It's truly not the same anymore.
SVU is still awesome though. Criminal Intent has the best actors of all of them but the stories are kinda boring to me.
I always Find my Ds3 controllers tend to stay in one piece more often than my 360 ones do. That and playing on the Ds3 Dpad when playing Street Fighter just owns.
DualShock 3(SIXAXIS) wins hands down.
The original Dual Analog PS1 controller shape is no contest the best controller design EVER. The DualShock, DualShock 2, SIXAXIS, and DualShock 3(SIXAXIS) are each slight refinements on damn near perfection.
Why the hell WOULD Sony change it?
Remember the boomerang? Sony considered change, but in the end they knew better.
Symmetrical layout, logical layout, comfortable layout, perfect spacing, easiest to remember button layout (Triangle, X, Square, Circle) instead of just more random letters.
The best analog sticks you could ask for.
Bluetoothy, rechargeable and motion sensing to boot.
ALL the XBOX controllers are crap in one way or another.
The first was just ridiculous. Massive, ugly, illogical. Who the hell thought black and white buttons were a good idea? And start and select not where they are supposed to be?
The smaller one was barely better. Marginally nicer to look at, maybe a little easier to hold. Layout, still crap.
The 360 controller not really any better looking than the small XBOX controller. Not really more comfortable. Black/white and start/select are back where they belong. Not rechargeable to start off with. Still taking ill-advised lessons from Dreamcast on where to put you analog stick.
Not surprisingly the XBOX controllers are getting more and more PlayStationish as they go and they're getting better the closer they get.
You know what had the worst controllers tho? The N64 and Gamecube. I mean seriously. WTF Nintendo? They invented the 2D version of the PlayStation controller with the SNES. Why not build from there instead going all kindergarten style?
Actually….I guess Sega might've had worse controllers, but speak no ill of the dead, right?
@leyke – that's filled with a lot of opinions that people disagree on. I always preferred letter assignments to random shapes. the triggers on my DS3 leave much to be desired and I accidentally hit them a lot. the overall shape of the controller doesn't conform well to the hands. Dpad rocks but I hardly use it. and the biggest offender is the Joystick placement. I didn't like it in 97 and I still don't like it now.
You must have tiny hands or something.
if I did have tiny hands I might like the tiny DS3 controller, what do you mean?
I have rather large hands. The DS3 fits perfectly.
Maybe you're just holding it weird?