I think I’m going to give Bastion another go. I meant to give it a more thorough run on my personal Xbox Live Account and never got around to it. It’s such a fun and charming game. It’s also cool that someone I like, ex-GameSpot editor Greg Kasavin, worked on it. Yeah, that settles it. This weekend will be about replaying Bastion!
How about you? What’s on your weekend playlist?
I'll be patiently waiting for N8Rs MK challenge.
Waiting…on the trolley?!?
The trolley to painville!
I didn't know this but it seems only Boston and one of the San places in CA have trolleys.
Pittsburgh has the T. Looking at it, I never saw any difference between it and a trolley.
But it runs on the train tracks and at a few points goes underground. I'm not sure if that classifies it as a subway instead… but the T looks nothing like any subway I've ever been on.
The nicest subway I was ever on was easily the one in Montreal. It smelled like flowers and was SUPER clean. Unlike any American public transportation of any kind.
Cool man, learn something new everyday.
Memphis used to have some downtown, but the city shut them down a few years ago. Not sure if anyone ever managed to convince the city to open them back up.
I'm gonna be on a monorail… all weekend.
LoL and maybe Gears 3.
If the I ever get to connect to the EA servers then BF3 beta. If not finish up the gears 3 campaign and some black ops before I sell it some time soon oh and some FIFA possibly.
I'll be doing the legendary campaign in Halo Wars with Bsukenyan if he's up for it.
I wrote him a lengthy e-mail about my 3-hour Halo Wars multiplayer marathon I had last night. It was so brutal, it made me swear off Halo Wars multiplayer forever. Long story short: It was a 3 on 3 match and became 2 on 1 after an hour. I was tearing it up with minimal help from my other teammate (some Limey from the UK) and had one guy left to destroy. That #*&$! built up his defenses at his ONE base and dragged the game out for another two hours playing defense. He refused to give up. I've met brick walls that were less stubborn than this guy. I'm not playing Halo Wars multiplayer ever again unless someone I know asks me and we can actually communicate and execute a strategy.
-M
I love games like that. I always want to shake the guys hand afterwards :D
I'll be on BF3 beta also. Just finished downloading it.
So I tried playing Gears 3 last night. I'm in Act 2 around the middle to end of it. I don't think I can go any further. The game just isn't fun. We are doing it 3 player coop and it's just a grind. Difficulty is on hardcore and it's the same thing nonstop. The first 2 games were by far better than this last one. I don't think I'm going to play it anymore. Very disappointed at Epic for delaying this title for seemingly no reason. I really wish there was some way to get a refund for stuff like this.
lack of overall story? Or similar missions and actions with the story progressing but not actually doing anything? I liked the first two fairly well, and I keep hearing there are some big plot points revealed later in the game. idk when I will get a chance to play this though. I just got to Portal 2 though and I have to say it is everything I thought it would be (I had very high expectations for this game and it did not let me down).
That's disappointing to hear, although I'm grateful that you and I seem to have different tastes in games (with the exception of a few). Gears has never been about the story. In contrast, I think the story is probably the weakest point of the series. Of the first two, I liked the slow, deliberate pace and tactical shooting… and the chainsaw through the torso thing. I'm actually looking forward to Horde mode 2.0 more than anything in GoW 3. It looks sick.
-M
I'm curious as to what exactly is shallow or weak about the Gears of War story? In general, what exactly makes a good story in a video game? And what is a good example of a quality story plot in a video game and why?
Yes that reads a lot like a final exam essay question, but I'm curious as to what constitutes those things in your mind.
SmackDown vs. Raw 2010/2011 had brilliant stories.
GoW 1 had virtually no story. You follow Delta Squad as they go around completing missions on a foreign world against a foreign enemy for an unknown purpose. The story meanders around and tries to create a plot involving a lightmass bomb and Marcus Fenix's dad as an excuse to kill a bunch of Locusts in the most visceral of ways (which makes the game fun). This is not exactly "Catcher in the Rye" stuff here. GoW 2 tried harder to give the story more depth, but it still fell short; noticeably on Tai (who was simply a means to a psychological end) and Dom, who's anguish over Maria was inconsistent, and at times, not believable. Thankfully, Braid got a bit of character improvement over the first installment, and Cole (as usual) is the token black guy complete with a catchphrase and a pro thrashball (football) background.
(continued)…
A good story involves a coherent plot, multi-faceted characters, a suspenseful climax, and a satisfying conclusion just for starters, and yes, there are exceptions. In general (and as far as video games are concerned), however, cut scenes make for a bad story driver. The games with the best stories do not need cut scenes (or use them sparingly) because it takes you out of the game. Bioshock, Fallout 3, and Half-Life never took you out of a game to tell you the story.
(continued)…
When a game has cut scenes, they usually have something contradictory, impossible, or incoherent with the gameplay in them. Halo Reach, Gears of War, and Resident Evil 5 are all examples of games that break the gameplay by showing you a scripted scene, thus physically taking you out of the game and sometimes being contradictory or conflicting in the process. For example: in Halo Reach, Kat was on a few missions with me as the A.I. and in the harder difficulties, I damn near hid behind her all the time because she was invincible. She would not die. I saw her get hit with mortar blasts, needles, plasma fire, and even a direct plasma grenade without flinching and she still kept going. Later in the game (during a cut scene, of course), she gets one needle through her helmet and dies. WTF?! That right there will break the story because it's incompatible with what has happened before. I believe that Nightshade actually has a term for this.
(continued)…
I believe Blizzard is one of the best around at telling stories using in game cutscenes and or cutscenes in general. Granted they are the exception and not the rule :P
That's not to say that all games with cut scenes are bad, but it's how they are used to advance the story and game. For me, the general rule of thumb is to ask yourself: "If they were to make this game into a novel, would it be any good?" In the case of Gears 1, the answer is "no." … at least, not with out fleshing out and padding a lot of scenes. Gears 2 does a bit better, but it still falls short of a good story. There are too many unanswered questions. There are not enough reasons to care about the plot. The characters are almost all one-dimensional, and the "lambent twist" suffers from George Lucas syndrome.
That is my short answer, since I could keep going when it comes to games and story, but I hate monopolizing the comments section since it seems rude. If you really want to know if a video game story is any good, always compare it to the best story in a game ever: SmackDown vs. Raw 2010 and 2011.
-M
"A good story involves a coherent plot, multi-faceted characters, a suspenseful climax, and a satisfying conclusion just for starters, and yes, there are exceptions." As you said there are exceptions. For starters I completely disagree that the conclusion has to be satisfying. Second, I don't think that those things always make a story good. They have the potential to make the story deeper, if used properly, but (stating the obvious here) is in no way an absolute formula.
I don't mean to ask a question and then bash your answer, so please don't take it as such. The idea of story vs. graphics has been on my mind again lately and you and smartguy just happened to make comments about a game's story which made me think about it even more.
I would generally agree with you that cut scenes aren't great for telling a story, and I know that we have discussed the Kat example in Halo: Reach before (which I can agree makes a story feel more forced). Quick but related adjunct note, I just re-played GTA4 to get the Liberty City Minute achievement and didn't go on any dates with Kate, (SPOILERZ) yet still ended up marrying her in the end. Yes things like that (impossible space, as described in the Portal 2 developer commentary, is a similar phenomenon) can show an obvious flaw in any story. Maybe it can point out that a particular method of conveying the story isn't properly done. Despite that I don't think that it is a reason to claim an entire game has a bad story.
I can hardly think of a game I've played recently that doesn't have some sort of flaw at some point that could be considered a "kat dying" or "Niko getting married to Kate" style moments in regards to the plot strength. This is simply a reality of the medium of gaming, and storytelling within that medium. Again, I will agree that Gears1 had a thin story, and that cut scenes don't always help tell a story the best way possible. Valve seems to get this (for the most part), but that doesn't make the story of Halo any less interesting. That franchise is helped out by the books (for those of us who have read them) but even without them I feel that the story is not damaged simply because of cut scenes and hard to believe scenarios sometimes popping up.
It seems that games come under attack for lack of story or plot quite often, but none of the reasons are gaming industry specific. Who here hasn't critiqued Michael Bay for making bad movies? What about cliche tv shows and books? If you want to get down to the nitty gritty there is bad storytelling all over the place, but for some reason games seem to get the most flack for it.
I'm willing to accept in movies that the main good guy just unloaded a 50 round pistol without reloading once. I might make fun of it every now and again, but I don't say the movie as a whole had a bad story because of that one action sequence. Audiences and consumers all over the place are willing to make exceptions from reality all the time, so why not the gaming community? Actually, it seems I only read reviews from hardcore fans or players that bash the story or plot of a game. Maybe we are the only ones who care enough to critique what we love. Even so, why aren't we able to suspend reality for a while and enjoy the meaning or action of a story instead of getting caught up on technicalities? I have my own thoughts on that, but in general I think that's an important question for game critiques to think about.
ps- I agree there are some good tactics for telling an effective story, such as the audio diaries in Bioshock. That's a favorite style of mine, but even the way it is done in Bioshock isn't necessarily well done. For it to be done truly well the player has to be looking for the story in addition to playing through the gameplay elements (like killing grunts simply to progress to the next area). Storytelling in games has relied on time consuming actions to act as busy work for players for so long now that I think it's a hard mechanism to let go of. Gaming never started off as a storytelling medium, although it is capable of that now. This is a hard medium to critique though, as nothing ever seems to be good enough. Movies are never good enough either. No true art (that has staying power) seems to be recognized close the the birth of its creation. The recognition always comes much later.
By now I'm probably just rambling because it's so late and I'm tired and sick, but hopefully some of what I said makes sense and there is some (faint) feeling of a rebuttal in my reply.
pps- should we really expect "catcher in the rye" quality from games as a medium? It's a different form, why should we expect the same results?
…
How the hell are you people able to type so much without having to break up the comment?!
-M
I'm not sure what the issue is. Nobody else has brought it up. What do you see when a comment gets too long?
But seriously, i think you missed the part where I said "which makes the game fun". I don't think I've ever bought or played a game because of the story, I play games to kill people, blow stuff up, cause mayhem, drive like a maniac, and all that other good stuff I can't do in real life. The criteria for if a game is good will always be "is this fun to play?" As long as a game is fun, everything else (including story) is secondary. That's why I like Gears and most other games I've played.
You just asked a question about story and I responded as if I was critiquing just the story and nothing else. Like most games, the story sucks because it's just a means to drive the gameplay (like kill a whole bunch of Locusts in lots of different ways) which is fine by me.
-M
Then why (and I'm asking this in a more general sense, rather than only to you) is story such an important determining factor for a game to be good. I love the same things you mentioned from gaming, which I get from GTA4. It seems to me that games have an expectation to have amazing stories though, and I never understand where that expectation comes from or why people don't aren't satisfied with the stories they get (bearing in mind that a healthy dis-satisfaction can help push creative boundaries in the future).
In other news, I'm not sure why you can't make longer posts like the rest of us. I've never had an issue with it or been cut off. What does it make you do to limit your posts?
Story takes precedence over bad game design and game play if the story is good. For instance…I enjoyed the story in GTA4. The gameplay itself wasn't too great but I wanted to know the end of the crime drama. That said…I bought GTA4 for the story and not the sandbox nature of the game. If the story was bad, I wouldn't have finished the game if the mechanics were fun.
Metal Gear Solid 4 … played for the story. Very satisfied at the outcome. I've played through twice, and probably will one more time in the future.
Uncharted 1 and 2…. the first game was just amazing in story and gameplay. The 2nd eclipsed the first. That said…eventhough the gameplay is amazing..I can't replay these games.
CoD/BF …. all about the fun. The Single player is ok I guess…but let's not kid ourselves.
What I'm getting at is we play for different reasons. I look for a good story in most of my games. When that part of the game is weak, I'm dissatisfied. When I buy a game for fun or multiplayer and those elements aren't fun..I'm dissatisfied. Gears 3 is just plain no fun in single player or coop if you ask me. Even the dialogue elements which were funny in the others is lacking.
^
ll
As it says in the new avatar (clear your cache if you can't recognize)…
Yesterday was a day of abysmal defeat for Big Blak. After a flurry of jokes, bad puns, and anecdotes… he succumbed ungracefully to a forfeit via being talked to too much in an Xbox Live party.
The Body Slammin' Kenyan from Ball State was a distant witness (as in, he was on and playing something else yet not in the party) when the destructive force now known to be the annihilation of Big Blak indeed occurred.
To all my fans… I appreciate the ongoing support… I never needed it… but thanks anyway.
And to Big Blak… better luck on the next guy. This is what happens when you tangle with a real gamer. The scoreboard will end up:
N8R- 1
Big Blak -0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
I saw you both online, and I actually did check to see if you guys were playing so I could jump in the party and commentate (this would have been a great time for that Win 8 integration, lol). Somehow I missed the actual match though and couldn't commentate on the match and pass on tales of heroism and defeat now, but I could always make something up.
You didn't miss anything.
He was playing Bulletstorm and I was on the Dashboard. We talked for like a half hour and the subject never came up. This is obviously a forfeit in my favor.
N8R- 1
Big Blak- Goose egg (0)
Uh… are you sure it wasn't his girl playing Bulletstorm?
Well, in any case, I don't think it's fair for you to claim victory since you didn't challenge him directly when you guys were talking. If one of you had said: (in a French accent) "I challenge you to a duel!" and the other said "no" or some other excuse not to play, then I could see that as a forfeit. But since neither of you said anything about Mortal Kombat or a duel in a French accent, then it ended up neutral in my book. BB could say that when you guys talked, you never mentioned anything about MK, so it would also looked that you chickened out by not speaking up.
-M
Fair?… FAIR?!?!
This is Mortal Kombat. There is no "fair" or "unfair". Just winners… and losers. I'm not gonna mention any specific names, but let's look at the scoreboard again, shall we?
<img src="http://en.gravatar.com/userimage/11323728/9fa49405919d4fbce2591e315fb6c5f3.jpg?size=400">
Dude… I'm pissed, too. I started Pittsburgh's defense instead of Chicago's in one of my fantasy leagues.
-M
Ok, but seriously: Next Saturday morning, October 8th- both of you agree to a time (PST/EST) to be online, best out of 7, record the damn thing, and throw it up online.
Are either one of you guys doing anything of importance next Saturday like a Podcast or being on a train?
-M
I don't have a capture card. The best I got is an iPhone and my word… which is my bond.
I have no idea what Saturday has in store for me yet. However, if he's free… well then… I guess… he doesn't DESERVE a rematch. I beat him fair and square by a technical backdoor disqualification and in my book… that's undisputed.
you have a mac, right? Don't they have built in cameras on those things? Just set up your tv so that it can be seen by the computer or vice versa, whichever is easier. That would at least be better than your iPhone since neither of you have a capture device.
Believe it or not, the camera on my phone is WAY better than the built in iSight.It doesn't matter anyway, he lost.
The iPhone 4 camera is pretty excellent in general. For a long, long time it was THE best phone camera out there along with the Nokia N8. Only a few have surpassed it in 2011 and a lot of the qualities are subjective.
Saturday :
BB is playing Bulletstorm
N8R enters stage left (party chat)
BB-Yo N8R whats good?
N8-Chilling man, about to run some errands.
BB-Oh ok. I'm down to play some MK if you want.
N8-Thats cool man I'm not going to be online for that long, I gotta meet someone.
BB-Aight cool man if you wanna play just holla.
We started to "shoot the shit" for a few more minutes and that was that. He left, I continued to play Bulletstorm.
This is why we, the audience of the BB vs. N8R MK extravaganza, need third-party verification….
I have a 3rd party. His gamertag is GivingTriple Og, he is from Holland and he was def in the party chat. Matter of fact he is online right now.
I never cared about what the RPad.tv Universe thinks, and I don't intend to start now.
I don't do it for them, I do it for ME!
I'm going to my mom's house for the weekend, I wont be back until Sunday night.
All joking and feud storylines aside… that is seriously the best thing you could be doing this weekend.
I miss my mom like crazy, everyday. She's coming out here this Christmas and I'm super excited.
Good deal.
Yea man and her birthday is 10/18 so I want to see her before I go to CO.
That's what I'm saying, I myself have moved 2500 miles away from my mom and even though it's only one of 2 regrets I have about moving (the other being the food), it's one I literally feel everyday.
I call her every weekend like clockwork.
My Dad passed away about a year after I moved. I knew the risk when I moved, but didn't think it would happen only a year later. That too is something I live with. I was able to fly back for his last few days… but I wish I would have been there the whole time. He was happy for me and all, but that's still my old man. I wish I could call him on the weekends.
Your parents are more valuable and rare than any material good that can be used for currency. They deserve our utmost respect. They on the other hand have to go through this ambivalent feeling of "I miss my baby" and "My baby is moving into the world as a proud man"… I do not look forward to that when my kids grow up.
I'm sorry to hear that about your dad man that shit hurts me, but I get where your coming from and I am not looking to having kids, let alone them growing up.
Lmfao!!!
Battlefield Beta and Pokemon: White. I still haven't beaten the game after close to 50 hours over the course of this YEAR. I have to beat it buy the end of the year. Have too.
Also, loving the free Portal OSTs.
yeah you gotta beat that game before the year is out! It's been a while since I've played much of that game but I'm somewhere over 200 hours. I'm still just shy of 500 hours in my HG version though. If you need any ringers to get through it all quicker let me know :) I don't have anything IV bred AND EV trained yet just because it is more difficult on gen 5 and I will get around to it later. They should still get you through fairly well though.
I'm at the elite four with lvl 50 -55 pokemon. The reason it is taking me so long is because I grind 5 lvl for each gym and I get bored of grinding fast.
Beat it last night. Now I just need to tie up the odds and ends at the end of the game.
Pokemon doesn't end. :P Now you have to EV train a proper team!